Episode 66: The Healing Power of Birds

You're listening to Demand and Disrupt, the podcast for information about accessibility, advocacy, and all things disability.

Welcome to Demand and Disrupt, a disability podcast. I'm your host, Kimberly Parsley.

And I'm your co host, Sam Moore. And as we are recording this, it is Halloween afternoon. And in honor of the occasion, Kimberly, I am sitting here eating my all time favorite candy, Skittles. I am tasting the rainbow as we go along. And I know that you're not eating candy corn as we speak, like I'm eating Skittles as we speak, but you do have some candy corn handy, don't you, Kimberly?

I've got some hidden away and as soon as we get done, I'm gonna sit down with my candy corn and enjoy the Halloween. It'll be past Halloween by the time you all listen to this, but just know, Boo. That's what I got to say about it. Boo.

Boo.

Yes. Yeah, and I'm normally not one to eat on, on a podcast, but you folks are gonna have to forgive me today because, you know, it's not Halloween every day and, and nor do we get to record on Halloween every year either.

That's true. That's true.

So I'm enjoying some Skittles for all of our listeners.

Well, today we are going to be talking about. While you're enjoying your, your Skittles there, you're going to be listening to my interview with Kat Fribley, and she is the executive director of Birdability, which, yeah, is a. An organization for people with disabilities to enjoy the natural world, in particular birds. And you're going to hear all about that. Doesn't that sound fascinating?

It does. I'll tell you. Birds are something we can all enjoy and partake in listening to, even though we may not necessarily be able to see them. Some of us, let's put it this way, all of us experience and enjoy birds in different ways. So it's, it's very fitting that you know, this lovely lady from Birdability is, is going to be featured on our show. And I do have a tender heart for birds, for sure. I'm not, I'm no bird expert or anything like that, but I mean, on a, on a spring day, what's more therapeutic, Kimberly, than sitting on your swing or, or laying in your hammock and, and taking in the birds, singing, listening to the birds.

Yep. And birds are. Actually, when I interviewed Kat, she had recently gone to your neck of the woods up there to the Audubon State Park.

Yes. And you told me she is in Iowa, actually.

In Iowa. Yeah.

So shout out to Iowa. But, yes, Cat was obviously here at the John James Audubon State park, which. Any of you floating through Henderson at any point in time? Audubon has a number of great attractions that you can take in. There's a. There's a campground there if you're into camping. They also have some really nice cottages that you can stay in if you're after a romantic getaway for, you know, any kind of reason, special occasion, there's those cottages, and there's a great museum showcasing the work of John James Audubon, who painted birds and spent a fair amount of his time on this great earth here in. In Henderson. So I. You know, obviously, Kat had some good things to say about her time at Audubon State Park, Kimberly.

She did. She loved it. She said it was very accessible, so. For people with all kinds of disabilities. So that's good to know. So I did not know there were cottages there. I'm not much of an outdoorsy kind of person, but, hey, if you can put me a nice cottage and there's, you know, power, so I have Internet and coffee, I could be set.

Yeah, I prefer all those indoor parks myself. And, you know, as far as the. As far as the accessibility, I. It's been a number of years, but I have partaking in some hiking trails there at. At Audubon with. With sighted gods, of course, and it was. It was great exercise, and I did not have any major issues getting through there other than the fact that, you know, in some cases, at the end, I discovered I was a. A big weakling and I needed to build some strength. But. But other than that, I. I was able to navigate those. So those hiking trails pretty easily.

Oh, well. Well, that's good. That's. That's good. I don't. Don't do hiking myself, but.

You don't.

No, I know. Imagine that. Right.

But we're gonna have to. I can't. I can't really talk. I haven't done one in years.

But, you know, to combine our two topics of the outdoors, animals and scary things being Halloween. So my dog. This is. I need some. I need some. I need Michael to find some special music for. We'll call it the Biscuit Chronicles.

Okay.

Yes. It's always terrifying shenanigans and what goes on. So she looks out our back door, our glass doors, and so someone has put up someone across our backfield. I think they're laying some fiber optic line or somebody's doing something anyway, so you know how the pl. The people Come out and they put up the flags. Right. To let people know, don't dig here.

Sure.

Yeah, right. The don't dig here flags mark the boundaries. Right, right. That kind of thing. So. And it's been real windy here the last couple of days, and so those flags are blowing, which is telling Biscuit that I. I don't know, Danger, danger. And it's freaking her out all, all over the place. She. That animal barked for a solid half hour yesterday. Oh, my goodness. Yes. You. I'm talking about you. She came. She. She.

Her ears were burning when she heard her name.

Yeah. So here she comes. So, I mean, I. I went in the bedroom and shut the door, like, to get away from the barking.

Anything to block her out.

Anything. Because. And you. You can't convince her. I. I was reading about someone who was talking about, you know, when your. Your dogs are barking at something like, they're like the, The. Let's say you get an Amazon delivery. So the Amazon guy comes up and he's on the. The porch, and the dog starts barking. And then if you say to the dog, hush, be quiet, be quiet, hush, they think you're joining in. Like they're trying to scare the Amazon guy, the delivery guy away. They think you're joining in.

So she just gets louder, and then.

She just gets louder because she's happy we're doing this together. And then. And then, you know, the, the guy drops the stuff and goes away.

Yeah. He's like, I don't want no part of this dog.

Well, yeah, but what does. The dog. The dog is like, we did it. We ran them off.

Yeah. She thinks mission accomplished.

Mission accomplished, Exactly. So barking is one of the hard things in a dog to get them not to do. And I, I can. I can 100% second that, because I could not get her to shut up at all yesterday.

Well. And I'm sure it's not just Amazon delivery people. I'm sure Biscuit also has been known to bark at, you know, friends that maybe don't come by much, but they decide to pop in for a visit sometimes or, or even like pizza delivery guys and that sort of thing.

Oh, oh. If it's an actual person who's coming into the house, oh, no, she must be put in a crate.

Otherwise, even if it's like family that.

Yeah, yeah. No. Oh, no, she. Yeah, we put her. Put her in the crate. She barks at everything. She barks at passing woolly worms, flags outside. You name it, she barks at it. She's got just issues let's, let's suffice.

It to say that, you know, there's more than one Halloween when biscuits around because there's plenty of spooky days each year.

Yes. And she is the protector of the family because clearly we do not have enough sense to protect ourselves from imminent danger.

You're never going to miss out on anything as long as she's lurking in your midst.

That is correct. That that's how it goes. Yep. So. Well, before she starts howling at the moon in here, Sam, I guess I will let our listeners go enjoy their post Halloween candy.

Yes.

And while they listen to my interview with Cat Frley, welcome to Demand and Disrupt, a disability podcast. I'm your host, Kimberly Parsley, and I am here with with Kat Fribley and she is the executive director of Birdability. Hello, Cat, how are you?

Hi there. I'm great. Delighted to be here with you.

Wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on. And we are going to talk birds and I love the name of your group is Birdability and that is awesome. And we're going to talk about that. And you know, every time people think of bird watching, they always think, or I think most people think of the person in the woods with the binoculars.

Yes, they do.

Around their neck, Right?

Yes, yes.

I always thought, well, that's not for me.

Right.

Because I can't see that and I can't see the birds. But now a bird ability is. And the term from bird watching to birding tells me it might be for me. So can you talk a little about that, about the switch from bird watching to birding?

Absolutely. I think you and so many others have thought that birding might not be something that was for you or for me or for so many others. Right. Because I do think we have this concept of birding as a super fit abled person dripping with sort of, as you were saying, binoculars or scopes or cameras off to find a rare bird somewhere and check it off their list and then boom, on to the next thing. And so I think one of the first things that birdability is really invested in is redefining what birding means, because to us, birding is truly the enjoyment of wild birds. Full stop. That is it the enjoyment of wild birds. And that can be in so many ways it really can be something that is done certainly with your eyes, if you are somebody who has sight and can check out birds. It also is something that can be done with your ears and listening really deeply for birds, learning bird songs, if you would like. But the piece around it that I think is so important is so many people have come up and told me and others, you know, oh, I'm not a birder, because, and then they have this always a reason, something like, you know, they can't identify the birds or they're using technology through, for example, the Merlin app, or they just, you know, sort of just, and that's in quotes, air quotes, just, you know, listen or observe the birds in their backyard. And to us, one of the things that is so joyful about birding is, is how accessible it can be to so many because you really can do it on your own. You can literally do it from your bed or from couch or from chair near a window. Right. Like, it's a pretty spectacular thing to be able to be in community with birds and nature and to be able to do that from really almost anywhere you are in any, any way you choose. And for us, I think that redefinition is the first thing towards creating accessibility for birders and for birding.

I, I, I think I, I like how you talk about the backyard birding, because that's primarily what I do is I, I just am trying to get really familiar with what's in my backyard. And right now there is a Carolina wren.

Oh, yeah.

Back there. That I, I'm just really interested in what this bird is up to.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah. And my dog has an ongoing battle with a crow. Yep, the crow is winning.

But the crows always win.

Don't they, though?

Always win.

But it is so fun to just experience nature that way through the animals interacting and things. So can you tell me how you came to herding?

Absolutely. I was so lucky because I, in my early college career, I had a roommate who was a birder. And that that sort of joy and serendipity just so happened to occur simultaneously with my own initial diagnosis of post traumatic stress disorder, which later became a diagnosis of complex post traumatic stress disorder from childhood sexual violence. And so for me, as I was starting to, you know, explore healing opportunities and figure things out, that sort of engagement with something that is so painful and so hard, trauma of any sort. Right. Meant that it was a really difficult time in my life. And I definitely could not have told you then what I can tell you now, which is that birding is part of what saved me. It's part of what kept me grounded and connected to nature and the world. It got me through some incredibly tough times in my life. And, you know, I hear that echoed by so many other people that when things are really difficult or really, you know, feeling high stress, high anxiety, a lot of uncertainty. There is some sort of nervous system regulation that we're finding birds bring to us the simple act of listening to birds. This is one of my favorite things. There was a study that said that six minutes of bird song in a day can help to regulate your nervous system, can help to create more opportunity for you to be actively aware and present. Right. And taking in with deep attention what is around you. And that's just such a, a, a A really again, fortuitous gift that I was given was that my roommate Linnea happened to love birds and gifted me my first Peterson Field Guide, which is how I started learning more about the birds and getting more curious. And again, 18 or 19 year old me could never have told you the importance of the moment that Linnea introduced me to and the birds that, you know, I had the opportunity to really get to know as part of my own tools for mental health and wellness. But wow, how lucky, right? I had. It's so funny because I did a class presentation recently at a, at Michigan State University and, and I'm always so fascinated by the questions that different people ask when I do a presentation. And there was a college student who asked, how long do you think it would have taken you without Linnea, right, without your roommate to come to birding on your own? And I couldn't answer the question. And I, all I could say was, oh, I'm so glad we didn't have to find out.

Oh, huh, huh. Yeah. So. So nowadays what does birding look like for you?

Yeah, well, so as my life has gone on, I have acquired other disabilities. I now have an ongoing physical mobility disability. Now that has meant, you know, I started using a cane back in the 2010s, and then in 2020, right around I started using forearm crutches. And most recently I have acquired actually an electric mobility device that has really opened up the world to again in a very different way. You and I were talking earlier about just the incredible value of things like benches, right? In terms of accessible physical spaces, including of course, most importantly, natural spaces. And for those many years where I was using a cane or forearm crutches, the one of the most important things for me in terms of finding accessible spots to bird were benches because I could only go so far. And then I needed a chance to sit and get my pain levels back down and my energy levels back up to be able to continue on. Ideally, I loved it if I could sit in one spot and see where I was going to Sit. Next. That allowed me to gauge. Right. Like, how far. How much I could navigate and manage. And I have to tell you, I, you know, so I did antisexual violence work for 30 years, and as a part of that work, I traveled a lot to do training and support for rape crisis centers and sexual assault coalitions across the country. And so I got to. And I got to actually set a goal of visiting all 50 states by the time I turned 50. And the last state, really was Alaska.

Oh, so you made it. You got.

You got all 50.

Awesome. Congratulations.

You. Just before the pandemic and just before I turned 50, I hit all 50 states. And what I learned in that process was how difficult it is when you are trying to plan a trip around your own access needs, whatever those might be. And so that's part of what, you know, makes me so passionate about Birdability. Now, Birdability was founded in 2018 by Virginia Rose, who needed the kinds of access that she required as a manual wheelchair user. My access needs are totally. Were, at that time, totally different. They were more about benches and certainly some flat paths, but more about not having to walk very far to see or hear the endemic birds like in that state that I was visiting. So it's just such a fascinating thing when you think about how different kinds of access invite people. Different people into their birding. And so I loved when you were mentioning benches, and immediately we bonded over the need for those benches to be very present in sites that we want to go visit.

Right. Because if, if, if there aren't the access needs that we have, then we. We just think, okay, this place doesn't want us.

Exactly. Exactly. What other kinds of things, Kimberly? I'm really curious. Make a place accessible for you.

Benches, of course. Honestly, for me, it is accessible bathrooms.

Yes, absolutely.

What, what. What I also mean by that is like the family bathrooms.

Yes.

Because sometimes, I mean, there is nothing worse. Well, I'm sure there are worse, but one thing that's terrible about being blind is navigating a public restaurant.

Yes. Yes.

I mean, you have to touch all the spaces, and it's horrible. So I would really rather be able to go into a place and my husband be able to walk in and say, the toilet's here, the sink is here, here's the. The hand dryer or towels or whatever. And. And I know where those things are. And also, I mean, they're very helpful when you're a parent and you have a small child. I mean, I had a small. A small daughter and a small son, and so those family restrooms are very, very important.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah, those. Those are important to me. Also, just knowing up front that, hey, we have considered what you might need.

Yes, yes. And having information up front, that's really what birdability and the birdability map are all about, is being able to share information ahead of time. What kinds of bathrooms are available? Are they available 24 hours or only when a building is open? And what kinds of bench situations are there? And are the paths, for the most part root free and flat if they're not paved? You know, those kinds of things are there. Are there tactile interpretive signs or a way to get information if you are not cited? Right. Like, all of that is super important. I have to tell you, you and I were talking earlier about Jerry Barrier, who is a birdability captain and a colleague that I so enjoy my work with. Also, Jerry is, who's been blind since birth, and he was talking about this, a very similar thing with bathrooms when we were in Colorado together at a training. Gosh, I guess it was in May of this year. And he said the worst thing are those public bathrooms, because every single one is different. And even if you learn one, you know, in the same building, it doesn't mean that the layout's going to be the same a floor up or a floor down. And. Right. And so one of the things that we were talking about was a desire for all bathrooms to have one of the braille and tactile signage pieces outside that has the layout of the bathroom, wouldn't it? Oh, my gosh, yes, it would. If you hear us Parks and Rec people.

Exactly.

Think about adding a tactile and braille sign to bathrooms that lets folks who need it know the layout of the bathroom.

To know the layout. Yes. Before we go in. Yep. To know what we're. What we're dealing with. Because you go in and if there are dryers and they're noisy and things you.

You really.

Even navigating by sound is not. Not possible.

Absolutely, absolutely. And there's something you said that I want to come back to because you said, you know, it's so important those family bathrooms for you because you and your husband or another companion. Right. Can access it together, but that it was equally important when you had kiddos and.

Right, right.

One of the things that I will say is that we never want to say access should, you know, be something that people invest in because it's good for everyone, but it's good for everyone. Like, they should invest in it because we need it. Right. Period.

Right.

We deserve it, period. And at the exact same time, when we build access features, when we build accessibility for people with disabilities, whether that is mobility disabilities or sensory, sensory disabilities, intellectual, any of those pieces, we're also really building something that is useful for people at all life stages. Those under 5, those over 65, parents or caregivers, folks who are navigating. Right. With many of, of the same kinds of challenges that folks with disabilities do. It just makes it better for everyone.

You know, it does. And a friend of mine who has kids the same age as my kids, we were talking about, you know, several years ago when there was the whole bathroom debate about people who were non, binary, gender, gender fluid and those things. And there was this whole debate and we started noticing, you know, one of the benefits of this incredibly stupid debate is that there are more family bathrooms.

Yes, yes.

So, right.

Anybody should get to pee wherever they. Right. Wherever they need to. And I love that welcomed there. I mean, that is just. But you are exactly right that oftentimes those gender neutral bathrooms end up benefiting so many more people than just. Right. Than just the folks perhaps, who were in that, as you put it, incredibly stupid. Right, right, right. Yeah, it's true. Almost anytime we create more access and more inclusion and more sort of welcoming and belonging for one person, usually that has incredible ripples for other people. It makes me think about all the things that were designed for folks with disabilities that now have just become a commonplace part of our lives, like curb cuts or like text or description.

Right, right.

Visual descriptions or those kinds of things that honestly I think everybody who lives in this technological world appreciates.

Yeah. They can for many benefits from that.

Yeah.

Tell me now about birdability, because we've talked about it a couple of times and you're the executive director. So tell us what bird birdability is.

Absolutely. So Birdability, as I mentioned, is a not for profit organization that was founded in 2018 by a woman named Virginia Rose. And Virginia is this woman who I just love her. She dreams out loud. It's one of the most amazing things. And she started paying attention to all of the places in her own hometown of Austin, Texas that were accessible to her because she discovered birding later in life. She also, when she sort of looked around was like, where are all the other disabled people? Visibly disabled people? Like, I don't see them out on the trail. And this is a pastime, a hobby, a joy, a life pursuit that has. Birding, I mean, has brought her so much joy. She wanted to make sure other people had that same access and also knew about it. So as she started making notes for herself about what was accessible and then keeping a list of the kinds of trails and sites and parks in her own community, she got really involved in thinking about access and birding and eventually was asked to speak to the National Audubon Society conference. And in that, she did her wonderful dreaming out loud and said, you know, now that I know these spots in my own town, I just. I wish there was a way to know about accessible spots all over the country so that everybody had that opportunity. And so I could go on a road trip from coast to coast, right. And. And, and meet up with other disabled people and bird in places that were accessible to us. And so that is how the birdability map was born. Because after that, National Audubon staff approached her and said, oh, Virginia, we can help you do that. And they did. And the birdability map now has more than 2,000 sites on it across the country. Grown so much from those, you know, initial. Initial 12 that Virginia had in Austin. We're now at more than 2,000 across North America, primarily in the United States, but also Canada, Mexico, and 15 other countries. And those are site reviews that allow people to determine what is accessible to them. So we don't say, here is a trail, it is accessible. Because when we do that, we miss so much nuance about how access and accessibility are different for different people with different kinds of disabilities or health concerns. And so instead, the map says, here are all these different things we know can make a real difference, including accessible bathrooms, including, you know, gender neutral bathrooms, including benches. And so tell us about this site. It's crowdsourced by people across the country who have just taken the time to share the information about that space. And now people with disabilities can filter and search using the things that are most important to them. So you, for example, Kimberly, could search for a place that has accessible bathrooms that are available and benches that are every 50 to 80ft or less.

Okay.

What a spectacular thing, because that really is about. Nobody has to know everything what is accessible to fill out a site review. Instead, we just say, please tell us this information and this information and this information, and then people can make the best decisions for themselves and can, as much as possible, balance that beautiful, like, know before you go kind of ethic with the I just want to show up and have an adventure just like everybody else.

Right.

It's such a. It's such an amazing tool. And out of that, birdability map really has grown so much more of a movement and now we are a nonprofit. We have been since 2021, working to make birding in the outdoors accessible and inclusive for everyone, especially folks with disabilities and health concerns. And we get to do that through the Birdability map, through advocacy, through outreach. We have the Birdability Outreach program that introduces people with disabilities to birding, often in congregate living settings such as rehab hospitals or, you know, one of the places right now that we have is down in Gulfport, Mississippi, at the Armed Forces Retirement Home.

Oh.

Where we have partnered with the Audubon Coastal Program there and with the Armed Forces Armed Forces Home. And with money from the Christopher and Dana Reeve foundation, we were able to send them things like camera enabled feeders. That's the word I'm looking for, enabled feeders, which then can be broadcast into all the rooms so folks who can't leave their room can still be connected to nature and the birds that are outside. But then we also are so lucky to be able to have birdability captains there who go and lead events monthly and introduce folks who are interested in learning more about birds. We set them up with things like binoculars and monoculars and identification guides so that they can check out a birding kit and go enjoy birds on their own. So we really have just exploded in terms of, you know, folks across the country working with us towards this.

So you said birdability Captains. Do you want to tell me a little about what that is?

Oh, I would love it. Birdability Captains are volunteers across the United States, Canada and Mexico and beyond who do, you know, work around access and accessibility and birding in their own communities. So we have two different forms. One is the community captains. Those are folks, often folks with a disability themselves, who want to help make birding more accessible to others in their community. They do accessible outings, they review sites for the map. They do advocacy and education in their own communities to really work with state, local, national parks, other public lands to make sure that accessibility is at the forefront. And then we have the Birdability Conservation Captains program. And that is such a fabulous thing. It's for folks that work in. In conservation fields to be able to. To take this real commitment to accessibility and inclusion back to their work in state, local, national parks, land trusts, Audubon chapters, bird clubs, nature centers, and to have a community of practice of other folks doing that same thing who can share resources and really build opportunities together to make sure that physical spaces and. And programming are both accessible to folks with disabilities.

Okay, now, you mentioned that the birdability map was crowdsourced.

Yes.

So if I go to like, I live in Bowling Green, Kentucky. So if I go to, let's say our local attraction here, Lost River Cave.

Yes.

So, and I wanted to, I don't know, survey it for disability, what would I do? Can you walk me through that?

Yeah, absolutely. So the main things that you should know is that if you go to birdability.org and you click on the Birdability map tab, it's going to take you to a, a page that explains what the map is and how you can participate. Including it will direct you to some of our guidance documents. We have something that we call our access consider document and that is something that gives detailed information about what makes a site accessible or a feature of a site accessible. But you can also download the sitemap or you can check out the, the site review form and it will tell you in a pretty easy way, hey, is this spot, does it have accessible bathrooms? Are they gender neutral? Is the floor X amount from the bottom of the sink? Is there a doorway that's X amount wide? And we ask folks as much as possible to fill out that information. We also encourage them if there's one or two pieces that you don't know and you don't have a tape measure on, you guesstimate and go tell us. It, you know, it looks pretty wide. I can, you know, stand in the doorway and put my AR out and have room like whatever it might be that allows you to help give information that can help someone decide if that is a spot for them. If you're interested, we also have several tutorials on our YouTube channel. I've done an hour long session on how to fill out a map review in case that's helpful. I do those info sessions at least once a year. And you can sign up for our newsletter also at our website and you'll get information then about the next one of those that's coming up. Oh, wow.

Okay.

An incredible opportunity for anybody that wants to be involved in such a meaningful way. Like please, please review the Lost River Cave. Tell us about whether or not it has benches and you know, how far apart they are and what the trail surfaces is and whether there is accessible parking available or is there public transit? All of those are questions that are on the site survey.

Well, that's wonderful because see, I wouldn't have thought about parking because I drive.

You don't drive? Yeah, no.

Right. So yeah.

And that's one of the reasons we also ask about public transit because so many people with disabilities don't drive. So is there parking, accessible parking Available for those that do with that access aisle for the ramp to come down. And then on the flip side, is there a way to get there that doesn't require driving? Is there. Is it on another path that might take you there or is it on public transit? Because those are all really important access considerations for people.

Yeah, they really are. And you had mentioned, you and I talked before we started recording that you had recently been to Kentucky. Lucky.

Yes.

So. So tell me about your trip here.

Absolutely. I was so lucky. I was in Indiana, actually in southern Indiana at a trails gathering that the Greenways foundation did for work and went to visit my brother and his family who lived just outside of Evansville, Indiana right after that. And we actually drove across the river there into Kentucky and we visited the John James Audubon State park, which is right there. And we had such a terrific experience. Experience checking out their boardwalk, which was an accessible boardwalk. There were opportunities. There was a museum there that folks could check out. We didn't make it to nearly all of what I would have loved to, but we had a really spectacular opportunity to make our way along a boardwalk over a marsh and to hear all different kinds of birds calling. And to. Then there's the. The boardwalk leads over to an island that has a. A fairly accessible dirt path. It worked for my electric mobility device and it was really just such a fun thing because I also had my nibblings with me, my. My niece and my nephew who were so delighted to be able to be out on the trail with aunt Kitty and and to, you know, be discovering all kinds of mushrooms and birds and beautif and end of season kinds of plants. And so that kind of joyful community and family adventure can only happen for me and my family when there are access considerations in place. So I am just always so delighted when parks, state parks, local parks have good information ahead of time. I will tell you that that park was not on the birdability map and it will be after next, really, because I'm gonna add it. I was so excited to take photos that I can add and to be able to describe what kinds of things are available there to allow more people to decide if that is a space that would work for them. So awesome.

And so what do you think? Was it mostly accessible?

You know, that trail was mostly accessible. I think there were a lot of trails that they had good information about actually on their website. I'm so appreciative when that happens. They had good information on their website. Sharing. This is a trail that, you know, we welcome you know everyone to and it's ADA compliant or this is a trail that you're going to find is steep and likely not accessible for folks with mobility challenges or balance issues or sensory processing disorder. And so what a great thing for a website to have that kind of info and then you know, again for us to be able to visit it and get a sense of it. And now I'll get to add it to the map and hopefully more folks will be able to go and check it out.

Absolutely. And where in Kentucky is that?

Oh, it is right across the river from Evansville, Indiana. And I would be totally lying if I said I remembered the city that it is in, but I it was really fun because also we're in the middle. You and I were just talking about this too. We're in the middle of fall migration. It's in. Oh, it is in Henderson, Kimberly.

It's in Hinda.

Okay.

Where Sam Moore, our co host is from. I have to send him out on a. On a recording job. Tell us all about it there.

Yes. So it was so fun to get to go and do that together because we are in the midst of fall migration when a lot of birds are moving to their wintering locations. Which means often birds that wouldn't necessarily be in the woods there or you know, in the marsh there are stopping by for sustenance and nourishment as they continue then their journey further south. Meaning we heard some pretty cool warblers. We heard a palm warbler and a magnolia warbler when we were there. Warblers. You know this is one of those things that's so interesting because people have this as you were saying concept that to bird you have to be able to see. In reality there are so many birds you never see even if you have sight. Birds that are skulkers, I call them down in the marsh or hidden but you know, in so much brushy area. Or those warblers who are so far up in the trees that you get what people call warbler neck where because you're craned all the way back trying to look all the way up to see way, way, way up, sometimes 50ft, 100ft up in the air at the tops of those beautiful old growth trees. So we heard Paul more blurs and magnolia warblers and Merlin helped us hear it. I love Merlin. It is an app that is developed by Cornell Lab of Ornithology. Anybody can have it on their phone and it tells you what birds it is hearing nearby and helps you know what to listen for and look For.

Yep, yep, that's what I have. And I use it. It. It is, it is. It is very helpful. I would not have known that was a Carolina wren, if that's what it is. I mean, I can't, you know, confirm, but seems likely I would not have known that's what's in my backyard without absolutely that app.

So, you know, we did the Blind Birder Birdathon. It was the first time I mentioned, I think Jerry Barrier was one of the people we worked with on that and we, among others. And that happened in May of 2025. It's going to happen again in May of 2026. And one of the things that, you know, will be happening is we're doing a series of community conversations for folks who are legally blind about learning to bird by ear, including using technology like Merlin. And it is right about 90% of the time or more is what we're. We're learning. It's just got an incredible rate of, you know, especially with common birds, being able to identify quite easily, which is such a gift to folks who are birding by ear, but also a gift, you know, we work with folks who are deaf and for them to be able to use Merlin to be able to quote, unquote, here, what's in the area that they know then where to start looking. Right. Because if it tells you, oh, there are red winged blackbirds calling, then maybe you look over to that marshy area and you start watching for that, that beautiful red patch on the blackbird's wing. And so it's amazing what technology has opened up for folks with disabilities. And that's one of the things we're going to talk about during Birdability Week, which is coming up, is adaptive tools and technologies that help birders with disabilities to be able to bird in the ways that make sense for them.

Yeah. And I think that, I think Merlin Birdadi is actually. Is it produced by the Cornell Lab?

Yes, it is. Cornell Lab of Ornithology. Same folks that do Ebird and All About Birds and a number of other tools that are just amazing for anybody who wants to learn more about birds or get into birding.

Right. And I, I am cognizant of the fact that not everyone who listens to this podcast is blind. There are people with lots of other disabilities. And you should check out the Cornell Lab because they have their owl cam.

Yes.

You can watch the, Watch the owls and the baby owls. And it's. My family loves that.

They love that. Absolutely. We love it, too. The Sapsucker Woods Cam as well, right. At Cornell, they have a camera that's just on all the time and has regular visits from, like, pileated woodpeckers and all kinds of songbirds. It's really. You're right. There's so much great stuff.

So much stuff. So much stuff. So. And given that this is fall migration, what are people likely to see or hear overhead now?

Yeah, it really depends on where you are. But I will tell you in my flyway, which is also kind of your flyway, Kimberly, that we've been having, first of all, we've had a wave of warblers moving south. And that. That is so fun. You know, one of the other things that I really am so appreciative of, there's a bird cast. I don't know if you've heard about this, but it tells you each night how many birds are likely to be moving through your area. They use radar, the same kind of radar that picks up weather. They use radar to determine the numbers of birds that are moving. And so, like, I'm just looking right now. And for the night of October 14th, which is tonight, they are anticipating right in our flyway. And you more than me, actually, Kimberly, 361 million birds are gonna be. Yeah, are gonna be migrating tonight. They are going to be in movement tonight. And that includes warblers. It also includes sparrows. It includes all kinds of songbirds. But one of my favorites, it includes hawks.

Hawks.

So many hawks and raptors that move south down, you know, either down further in the United States or even further than that, down to the Caribbean, to Mexico, to Central and South America. And it's so fun because hawks move in what we call kettles. So they move in these large groups and they just look magnificent going overhead if you happen to catch it. When I was in southern Indiana, I was birding colleague Michelle Morton, and we just happened to be sitting at that Greenways foundation meeting outside on the balcony, and we looked up and a whole kettle of broad winged hawks just appeared, 35 of them, and then disappeared, continuing on their way. And just gifted us this sort of magical experience of watching them literally gliding in a group. And they. They don't move in a super linear way. They have this beautiful gliding, as do pelicans, which are also in movement right now. And that's one of my favorite things to be able to watch are those big birds high up and then the little birds. I just love listening for them as they go over.

I call me a simpleton, but I. I love me some geese.

I really Do. Are you kidding? That's one of the things that I think is so awesome about. You know, again, going back to the beginning of our conversation, redefining birding away from, like, always looking for a rare bird and really just appreciating the birds that are nearby. The. The geese, the Canada geese are spectacular. They're. I love them. I love their sounds and their really raucous nature.

I love it so much.

Yes. And they're so accessible because they are probably right outside your door in one way or another. Yes.

Yes. I remember one time, I think it was this time of year. One year one October, there was this. Just this racket outside, this cacophony. I was like, what in the world is happening? And it was this huge. Are they a flock? Is that what geese are?

Yeah, a gaggle there. A gaggle. Name is a gaggle of geese.

Gaggle of geese overhead. And I was. I just stood there listening because it was. They. They were just amazing. So many of them. I loved it so much.

There is such power in watching birds flocking together that's, you know, in listening to the. The sound of them. Similarly, starlings being able to watch them in either a murmuration where they're moving so quickly with each other in waves, but you can also hear them, the sound of them. Sometimes there's hundreds or thousands of them in those groups, and there is just an incredible power to that that energizes me. And it sounds like energized you, too, when you absolutely got to hear it.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I hope. I hope people will listen to this podcast and think, oh, well, you know, I. I never thought birding was for me, but maybe it is.

You know, I will tell you it is. Birding is for everybody, and everybody mind.

Wonderful, wonderful. Well, Cat, what else do we know? Anything else we need to know about birds, birding or birdability?

Oh, my goodness. This is barely the tip of the iceberg. Of course, I would. I could talk birds with you literally for days. But what I will say is that this is happening, this podcast, at such a great time, because every third week of October, third full week of October, we do something called Birdability Week, which is a celebration of accessible birding and the centering of folks with disabilities. And so if you are interested, Please check out birdability.org the Birdability Week tab has all of the virtual events. We have 10 virtual events between October 20th and 26th that will be happening about things like car birding or birding while blind, or about using a wheelchair to navigate trails and about what belonging means for folks with disabilities in this burden community. And so would love to have folks join us for that. You can also find information there about accessible outings in communities all across the country and North America. We have 85 plus already that are happening between October 20th and 26th in celebration of Birdability Week. And we really hope that maybe folks will join us. The other thing is follow us on social media. We're at birdability on both Instagram and Facebook as well as at Blue sky. And we're going to do virtual birding where somebody across the United States or Canada takes us birding with them. A virtual birding. They'll be able to tell us about the birds they're seeing and hearing and show them on Instagram live. And we're gonna be wonderful. Yeah, we're gonna do that every morning from October 20th to 26th at 10:00am Eastern. And we hope you'll join us there because it's a really fun way to get to start your day with birds and be in community with each other.

Wonderful. I'm so happy you agreed to talk with us and I hope more people will pick up the the the mantle of birding and get more involved with that and follow you all on birdability and I'll try to share some of that stuff and. Sounds like a party.

Enjoy your Carolina wren.

Thank you. I will. I will tell it you said hello.

Please do.

All right. Thank you. Kat Fribley, executive director of Birdability.

Thank you so much for having me. This was a delight.

Demand and Disrupt is a production of the Advocado Press with generous support from the center for Accessible Living, based in Louisville, Kentucky. Our executive producers are me, Kimberly Parsley, and Dave Mathis. Our sound engineer is Michael Parsley. Thanks to Chris Ankin for the use of his song Change. Don't forget to follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode and please consider leaving your review. You can find links to our email and social media in the show notes. Please reach out and let's keep the conversation going. Thanks, everyone.

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