Roving reporter, Keith Hosey, tells us about innovative approaches to finding work for people with disabilities. Plus, Kimberly and Lisa talk about pets problems and the news that Walmart is making a push into the disability accessories market.

Thanks to Chris Ankin for use of his song, “Change.”

The book "A Celebration of Family: Stories of Parents with Disabilities." is available from Amazon here.

Send comments and questions to [email protected]

Demand and Disrupt is sponsored by the Advocado Press and the Center For Accessible Living.

Thanks to Steve Moore for the transcription which you can find in the show notes below when they become available.

Transcript

Kimberly Parsley 00:03 Welcome to Demand and Disrupt: The Disability Podcast. Here, we will learn to advocate for ourselves and each other. This podcast is supported with funds from the Advocato Press, based in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey, everyone! Welcome to Demand and Disrupt: The Disability Podcast. You're in for a treat today! I am here with Lisa. Hey, Lisa. Lisa McKinley 00:25 Hey, Kimberly! How are you this morning? Kimberly Parsley 00:28 I'm doing great! So, everyone gets both of us. How are things going for you this August? Lisa McKinley 00:34 Oh my goodness! August is such a crazy time of the year with back to school and all the things. So, we're getting into the rhythm. Kimberly Parsley 00:45 Yes. Have you got the August crud: the germs that the kids bring home? Lisa McKinley 00:52 Both of the kids have, but I somehow managed to avoid it. I don't know how, but I have. Kimberly Parsley 01:01 I got it. Both kids and I have gotten it. Then guess what else we got? Lisa McKinley What? Kimberly Parsley Because there's not enough insanity already in my life, we got a puppy! Lisa McKinley Awww! What did you name her? Kimberly Parsley [laughter] Her name is Phoebe. Sometimes we call her other things [laughter], but she is adorable. We got her from the shelter. She is a pug mix. I say she's more mixed than pug. She's kind of adorable and poorly behaved right now, but we're working on it. Do you have pets at your house? 01:49 Lisa McKinley I do. We have two cats and a dog. Frankie, Kittems and Dixie. Kimberly Parsley 01:57 Wow! Lisa McKinley 02:00 Cats. Everybody needs cats, because they’re entertainment and frustration. Kimberly Parsley 02:09 Yes. [bark in background] Sorry about that, y'all. Welcome to my life: inside the life of a disabled person. It's just like your life, right? Just like everyone else's life. Lisa McKinley 02:20 It's just things and speaking of, yesterday I was trying to have coffee and I hear this noise. I'm like, ‘What in the world?!’ It sounded like the cat was dying and it was coming from the back. So, I ran to the back and I follow the sound, it was in the bathroom. My first thought was, ‘This cat has climbed the shower curtain and it's hung itself somehow on the bar and I've got to get to this cat before it gets tangled up!’ So, I literally reach up there and there’s no cat. Then I realize [the noise] is coming from underneath the bathtub. We have one of those Jacuzzi tubs in the bathroom and the control panel, the access panel, had come off. The cat was under the tub and it couldn't get out, because somehow (this part I don't understand) there was a salad bowl in the bathroom. The bowl had wiggled somehow its way under the tub and was blocking the cat's entrance. So, I got the salad bowl out and the cat came out and it was all fine after that. I still don't know why there was a salad bowl in the bathroom?! Kimberly Parsley 03:35 So, your pets are obviously better behaved than mine? Lisa McKinley 03:39 Well, I don't know. I believe the cat might be peeing in the air conditioner. I don’t know. There's a smell in our room and it only comes on when the air conditioner comes on and it's not in any other place in the house and it smells like a baby diaper that's being cooked, like when they pee in their diaper. I have tried everything! I took off the vent, I sprayed orange Febreze and then it just smelled like somebody peed on an orange. So, if anybody knows how I might get that smell out… Kimberly Parsley 04:20 That’s excellent! Yeah! If anybody knows about that, because Lisa I don't think that's a blind problem! I think that you're not having blind problems! [laughter] Lisa McKinley 04:29 No, I don’t think it’s a blind problem. I don't know why my cats want to climb under bathtubs and pee in the air conditioner vent. Kimberly Parsley 04:39 Yes. Anybody got any tips on Lisa’s many woes or how to train a dog to, well, do anything, really – anything at all – go ahead and send us in those tips to [email protected]. You can put in the subject line, I don't know, just “y'all be crazy!” That's what you could put on the subject line. Lisa McKinley 05:04 Pet problems? I don't know, something! Kimberly Parsley 05:06 Problems! There you go. But, speaking of problems and solving at Walmart, believe it or not, Walmart is looking to solve some of our problems. Have you heard about this? They have a new line of disability things. Let's see, what does it say? It says… Lisa McKinley 05:27 I think they have some weighted utensils? Kimberly Parsley 05:30 Yeah! It’s to better serve their disabled population. It says ranging from clothing to assistive technology. Yeah. They've introduced an adaptive channel on their website. I guess these are things you can only get through their website, not in store but, still, that's pretty cool! Lisa McKinley 06:03 It's really neat that they're trying to be inclusive in that way I think. Yeah, I was reading about it yesterday and one they have in their line of products is a backpack that is designed to slide over the handles of a wheelchair. I thought, ‘Man, that would have never occurred to me as something necessary,’ but I guess it is. Kimberly Parsley 06:27 I'm sure it is. And people who are in wheelchairs I bet know that. Isn’t it nice that they can maybe just get on Walmart and get the stuff they need, we need, all of us need, for a cheaper price, maybe? And man, if that's got like a two-day shipping or something that would be great one. Oh, yes. I'd love it if maybe they get cane tips for the blind. I don't think they have those right now, but if that could be something they get that would just be awesome! And reading the story, it says other retailers have gotten into this thing, too. It says you can get stuff from Kohl's, Target, CVS. Hearing aids now: hearing aids can be bought over the counter at some of these stores. Lisa McKinley 07:18 Hopefully it will be a movement and they’ll be leading the way and more companies will join suit, because we need more products. Kimberly Parsley 07:26 That would be great! That would be great. It'd be great to be able to go into a Walmart when you're doing your back to school shopping and know that all the other kids getting their backpacks are seeing a backpack for person with a wheelchair and that would normalize that. When they get to school and see someone in a wheelchair, it would normalize that. I think that's great, don't you? Lisa McKinley 07:45 Absolutely. Kimberly Parsley 07:48 So, Lisa, how do you feel about traveling? Are you a traveler? Lisa McKinley 07:55 I wish I could love traveling, it’s just not my favorite thing. And I don't know if it's because wherever you go, there you are. I mean, the scenery doesn't really change for us much. [chuckle] Maybe that's it, but then I know a lot of blind people who love to travel, so maybe I'm missing something. What about you? Kimberly Parsley 08:20 Hate it! Absolutely hate it! Absolutely hate it. I like my own bed, I like my shower to be set up exactly the way I have set it up, so I know what's what. Yes, not a fan of traveling, don't like to go much further than the mailbox. I’m quite a homebody so, yeah. Lisa McKinley 08:41 One of the things for travel that I'm not a fan of is I just I feel out of my element. In the house I'm the queen of the house, but when you put me in an Airbnb somewhere it's like, “Okay, where's the stove? Where's the bathroom?” It’s someone constantly having to show me the things and I just, I start to feel like I'm just ready to get home, let’s put it that way. Kimberly Parsley 09:11 Yeah. I went on vacation earlier and a friend of mine was like, “Oh, I'm so sorry!” [laughter] She described vacationing as parenting, but with less convenience, more expense, and with sand up your butt. [laughter] Lisa McKinley 09:36 It's true! Except, yeah, we typically do the whole mountains thing. We don't go to the beach, so not a beach. I don't know what we'd have in place of sand. Kimberly Parsley 09:50 Leaves in your hair or some such. Lisa McKinley 09:53 Mosquitoes and tick bites. Kimberly Parsley Always. Lisa McKinley We went on a vacation not too long ago and someone with us got a spider bite on her butt. Kimberly Parsley 10:04 Oh, wow! That would be terrible! That would be terrible. Well, fortunately for us, our roving reporter, Keith Hosey, went to the APSE conference [pronounced app-see] not long ago. I believe it was back in May. So, he did some interviews for us so that you and I could stay at home, queens of our castles, and not go. Lisa McKinley Thank you, Keith! Kimberly Parsley Exactly! So now we're going to hear some of what Keith talked about at the APSE conference. Kimberly Parsley I'm here with our roving reporter, Keith Hosey. And he's going to give us another roundup of interviews that he conducted and people he talked to at the APSE conference. Hello, Keith! How are you? Keith Hosey 10:50 Hi, Kimberly, I'm doing well. How are you? Thanks for having me. Kimberly Parsley 10:54 I'm doing wonderful. Thanks for doing this for us! I appreciate it so much. So, tell our listeners again, what is APSE. Keith Hosey 11:03 APSE is the Association of Professionals for Supporting Employment First. That is their current acronym. When they started originally, it was the Association of Professionals in Supported Employment. So, it is a professional membership group for individuals who work in the field of helping people with disabilities find jobs. Kimberly Parsley 11:30 That was a really, really well put and succinct way of defining supported employment, correct? Keith Hosey Yes. Kimberly Parsley Excellent! Helping people with disabilities find jobs. That's great. That's excellent. Perfect. Tell us about the first person we're going to hear from. Keith Hosey 11:49 This interview is with Rachael Lanter, who is one of the co-directors of an agency out of Lexington, Kentucky, serving Central Ky., and that agency is called Build Inclusion. They do supported employment and other related services for young adults with disabilities. Kimberly Parsley 12:11 Yes she's very well spoken. She's very passionate about what she does, isn't she? Keith Hosey 12:19 She absolutely is and full disclosure: I know Rachael; I also serve on the Board of Build Inclusion. I obviously saw her at the conference and pulled her aside and said, “Can you be one of our interviewees?” So, she was one of the individuals we interviewed. But she's, yes, she's really great! Great at her job and you can tell she's passionate when you hear her talk. Kimberly Parsley 12:48 Excellent! Now, a real quick go over. She talks about “Person First.” Can you tell us a little bit about what that means? Keith Hosey 12:58 Absolutely! Person First, person-centered services, is a mode of providing services to individuals. The idea is that the person is in the center of the services. The old model of delivering services to people with disabilities was that there was a professional on one side of a desk in a suit, telling that person with a disability what would be best for their life and their disability. Long story short, along came this thing called the Independent Living Movement as well as the Disability Rights Movement and it changed a little bit. People with disabilities said, “You know what? We think we might be experts in our own bodies and minds and selves. We think we should have some say in what happens to us.” So, what happens is this: all of these different disability services have slowly over the years changed to this idea that maybe that person with a disability does know what they want in life or what might be best for them in life. So, it's just a really funny way of saying something that those of us that have been around in the independent living movement find as kind of just secondhand, it’s natural. But it is kind of a new concept for some other disability service agencies and industries. Kimberly Parsley 14:30 Okay. Great! Keith Hosey 14:32 Kimberly, by new I mean not like the last three years, but last 15 years or so. Kimberly Parsley 14:41 Right. It's so interesting, isn’t it? There was the 70s where really lots of social movements were taking place. Then, of course for us, the ADA was the gold standard that happened in 1990. So, yes, new now is right about 10 to 15 years. Yes. Let’s listen to Keith's interview with Rachael at the APSE conference. Keith Hosey 15:14 We're here with Rachael Lanter with Build Inclusion, which is a nonprofit agency here in Lexington, Kentucky. Rachael, I want to ask you a couple of questions about supported employment and the work that you do. Rachael Lanter Sure. Keith Hosey First of all, can you explain what supported employment is to me as if I didn't know? Rachael Lanter 15:33 Sure. Supported employment in a nutshell is how we get people jobs that really highlight their skills and strengths. So, you think about traditionally you go out into the workforce, you find a job that appeals to you. But how do you know when a job appeals to you? Right? So supportive employment is how we help people understand what are their skills, what are their strengths. Then, we help them get jobs in the community that meet not only their interests and skills, but meets an employer’s needs in the community as well. Keith Hosey 16:06 When you’re providing supportive employment, so that our listeners understand, are you going to meet with people in an office behind a desk? Or are you going to be…? How does that look when you're helping someone find a job? Rachael Lanter 16:19 [chuckle] Sure. I kind of chuckle because at this point, I don't even have a desk because you don't need one? No! No, of course not. When you work with someone in supported employment, you are out in the community. We joke all the time, we're boots on the ground, we're out in the community. My favorite part of supportive employment is the discovery process. That’s the part in the very beginning when we’re just getting to know somebody. We get to be out in the community, we go to their homes, we get to do things that they're already enjoying and that's how we get to know people. Right? That's how you meet, that's how you would make friends, that’s how you would get to know anybody. So, that’s how we kind of uncover things; discovery is exactly what it sounds like. You're discovering their interests, their skills and strengths. We're at libraries, we're at parks, we’re trying out different activities in the community, so I’m never at a desk [chuckle]. Once we get through the discovery phase, once we kind of have a good idea of what makes somebody unique, what's their spark, then we can use that information to help guide the job development process where we help them find a job that really kind of appeals to those interests, but also highlights the strengths and skills that they have. Then, once we get somebody a job, we get to go to work with them and offer support to them on the job, which is also really, really neat, because then we get to help facilitate them as they're growing and they're learning and they’re getting all these new tasks in and we get to help see that they're set up for success from the jump and then we'll get to watch them grow in their job. Keith Hosey 17:45 So, your job isn't done when you find someone a job. You support them on that job and help them learn their job, too? Rachael Lanter 17:52 Absolutely! Yes. And at Build Inclusion we have a saying that once we work with them, we're always going to work with them, because we want to help people. We don't want to just walk them into their first job ever and be like, “Okay, have fun! See you.” No, we want to be there as a source of support for as long as we possibly can and make sure that from the jump they're set up for success. But we're always going to be there to help support them in their journey. So, it could be that like today, I'm helping someone sign the initial paperwork that they're going to be hired on. But six months from now, I get to still be there to pop back in and say, “Hey! How’s it going? What can I help you with? What can I do to support you right now?” And we've had people, too, that [after a] couple years on the job are like, “You know what? I would really like to move up, but I'd like to find something else. I've gained these skills and I’d like to find something else I can put these skills to use at and I want a challenge.” We can help them with that, too. So lifelong. Keith Hosey 18:49 You mentioned being out in the community with your clients or consumers. What's the coolest job you've ever supported someone on? What's the most interesting job or most interesting company you've ever visited? Rachael Lanter 19:06 Oh, yeah. That’s a tough one, because I've been to so many different cool places with people. One of my favorite stories, though, I think, and it's not necessarily unique or whatever, but it was a full circle moment for this person. I helped someone get a job at a daycare and the specific daycare that she really was very adamant that she wanted to work at was a daycare that specifically helped kids with higher, more significant medical needs than a traditional daycare would feel comfortable serving. It was really important to her, to this employee, to give back to the community that helped raise her. It turned out, at one point, she did go to that daycare and then she tells me all the time, “I'm so happy here! I get to help raise people's kids and show them what it looks like to work with a disability.” She's moved up the ladder and she has all these certifications now. She's got her CPR, she's got her CNA, she's got all these different things. And the daycare that she went to now is helping her grow in that role. And she gets to show the kids that she works with all the time, “Hey, this could be you! You're at stake, you're little, you're still learning and growing, but look at your future. The possibilities are endless!” So, that for me is the coolest thing. It’s not the most unique or the most interesting maybe for other people, but it's been the coolest to get to be part of her journey in that. Keith Hosey 20:30 That, and I would say, myself working in supported employment, the most exciting thing is when someone gets that job. You work with someone and you see them put in the work and put in the sweat and then they finally land that job. Nothing better in my world than someone calling me to say, “I got the job!” Rachael Lanter 20:53 Yes. Absolutely! Keith Hosey 20:57 Tell me a little bit [of your experiences], because we all have various backgrounds, even though we're working in supported employment. When you think about your jobs before working at Build Inclusion, what's the most fun or coolest job you've ever had? Rachael Lanter 21:15 The coolest job I've ever had. I was a nanny once upon a time. That's how I kind of worked my way thru college and grad school. Before I found my way into the disability community, I was a nanny and that was a really cool experience for me, because basically, I got paid to hang out with these cool kiddos and hang out at the pool all day. But I learned a lot about different approaches to parenting and raising kids and I learned about the Montessori method for the first time. Maria Montessori as you know, had a really significant role in the disability community and disability education eons ago. So, that was kind of my first introduction. This family was really into Montessori method and really into digging deep and into individualized things, not just like standard education, standard parenting, and everything was very person-centered. Even though I come from a background in social work, that was really my first introduction to person- centered anything. That was a really cool and fun job for me and it was because of the parents I nannied for. They encouraged me to find my way to social work, because I was on a totally different trajectory before I met them. They were like, “We've really been thinking about you and we can tell that you're not really happy with the career choices you're about to be making. Maybe you feel pressured into that way.” I was looking into clinical psychology and that was a lot more clinical than I thought I wanted. They were like, “Have you looked into social work?” And I said, “Okay, I'll look into it.” I fell in love with social work and it was because of social work, my Master’s program (I had to do a practicum placement, an internship). I was like, “What would be the least likely thing that I would have had an experience with before? What would be something out of the blue that I have no idea of, I've never done anything like that before.” I was like, “I don't have a lot of experience in the disability community and I'd like to.” So, I found my way to Build Inclusion and fell in love with the work! It’s crazy how just a job like helping take care of somebody's kids for the summer and hanging out at the pool can land your dream job, where you get to help other people find their dream jobs! Keith Hosey 23:27 That's great! And I think that's such an important story for our listeners, most of whom are individuals with disabilities. Just that natural experience of one job leading to another job to another career. I think the statistic is now people don't just change jobs several times in their adulthood. People change careers three or maybe five times in their lifetime. So, the idea of going somewhere and working your whole life there is really an idea of the past, Rachael Lanter 24:06 I was just telling somebody the other day, we don't live in a society where we're expected to work at the same place until we retire. If you don't have the luxury of a retirement fund, you work somewhere until you die. That’s a really antiquated idea. I kind of love that we've moved away from that, because we're human beings and we are not meant to stay stagnant. We're meant to evolve, we're meant to be dynamic and we're meant to change our minds. I think that's kind of a really neat platform that if we come from the background and the idea like, “Yes, I'm gonna help you get a job today, but what if you change your mind?” Or, “What if you meet somebody at that job that leads you to a bigger and better thing?” That's cool! That's fun! We're meant to do that. We're meant to evolve and change and you're not going to be the same person today as you will be in five years. You may be totally different and that's fine. Keith Hosey 24:54 Thank you. Rachael Lanter Yes, welcome! Kimberly Parsley That was great! So, Keith, the next interview was with Teresa Brandenburg and she is with the Human Development Institute at the University of Kentucky. Can you tell us a little about her and what she does? Keith Hosey 25:14 Sure can. Teresa is one of the fidelity reviewers (I'll explain that in a minute) for Kentucky's Individual Placement and Support program, which is a type of supported employment. Rachael talked about supported employment in general. The IPS model here is one way of delivering that service. It’s an evidence-based model and Teresa talks a little bit about that [specific] model. She's a very smart individual and she's been doing this work for quite a while. Before she worked at the HDI (Human Development Institute) as a fidelity reviewer, she worked for state Voc Rehab for a number of years and retired from there. So, she really has a wealth of knowledge and knows a lot of people around the state and is just a really great person. Kimberly Parsley 26:23 Okay. Let’s listen to Keith's interview with Teresa. Keith Hosey 26:31 We're here with Teresa Brandenburg who works for the University of Kentucky's Human Development Institute. Teresa in her role at HDI is a an IPS supported employment trainer. I’m going to let Teresa explain exactly what IPS is and how it works. Teresa Brandenburg 26:53 Hi, Keith! Thank you for having me on here. IPS stands for Individual Placement and Support. It's a specific supported employment program that was developed out of Dartmouth University back in the early 2000s. It has done all the tests and norms and things like that and it's an evidence-based practice for people with severe, persistent mental illness and substance use disorder, to help them go to work; to provide the support so that they can go to work and gain competitive integrated employment. Keith Hosey 27:24 slinky. When you say that it is evidence-based, what exactly does that mean? Teresa Brandenburg 27:29 Well, the researchers have done all the studies and it has a fidelity scale, a 25-item fidelity scale. They did all the studies to determine what's going to work the best to help to make people the most successful at work. So, they developed this 25-item fidelity scale that people adhere to and it’s a kind of roadmap for implementing IPS supported employment. There are also eight practices and principles that it goes to. One of the major ones is zero exclusion. So, as long as anybody says that they want to work and they have that severe and persistent mental illness or substance use disorder, they can be eligible for IPS services. It’s a team approach. So, we work in partnership with the Office of Vocational Rehabilitation here in Kentucky. The IPS program itself is international; there are about 24 states and four or five countries such as New Zealand, Portugal, Italy, England, just to name a few. I know it's those four, for sure. So, it is international, not just located here in the United States and it’s kind of all over the world. It’s helped lots of people go to work. There’s about a 43% success rate across the international landscape for IPS and that's one of the highest success rates for people working with disabilities to get for people with disabilities going to work. Keith Hosey 29:05 So, I want to ask you. You mentioned zero exclusion as part of the IPS model and I love that aspect of it because basically, it says, “We're going to assume someone is able to go to work.” In so many aspects – a lot of our listeners are individuals with disabilities – in so many aspects in our society, people with disabilities run up against [negative public attitudes toward the working abilities of the disabled that create] barriers. But, what this practice [zero exclusion] is saying is that we're going to assume that you can work and we're going to help you find that job. Teresa Brandenburg 29:40 That's right! No matter. It doesn't matter if somebody said you're not work ready. You have a history of incarceration. You may have a history of violence in the past. If you are still actively using substances, you may not be attending therapy or not even be medication compliant. No matter what, it's zero exclusion: if you say you want to work, this program will work with you. Keith Hosey 30:06 Teresa, you also mentioned individuals. This practice, all of the data shows that it works really well for individuals with severe and persistent mental illness. For our listeners, I just want to kind of explain that those individuals who fall under that category are individuals who may have active psychosis, they may have a diagnosis of schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, bipolar disorder, major depression. So, the employment rates for individuals in this category traditionally are very low. Oftentimes individuals are not accessing the systems that can help them. But you're here saying that this system that an agency could come and pick up to serve these people is getting a 40 something percent success rate, which is phenomenal. Teresa Brandenburg 31:07 I am saying that and it is phenomenal! I have a background in vocational rehabilitation. I worked in that field with the public VR system in Kentucky for 27 years. Prior to that I did work at a substance use facility. Of all the programs that I've ever worked with, this is the best. It's been the most supportive and the most successful in it. Keith Hosey 31:33 So, I think that what my takeaway is from this, really, is that there are a lot of individuals out there who might have those diagnoses and have tried to work and have not been successful and have been discouraged, that there is a program out there for you and you can access it in any state. There can be success and you can find a job and a career and live in that recovery model. Teresa Brandenburg 32:07 That's correct. We train people. I'm one of the trainers for the state. We work with the different providers that we have in order to help them provide quality services so that people that have experienced maybe job loss or not being employed in the past because of their mental illness or substance use disorder, that they can go to work and be successful. We look at even a job loss: we do not look at that as a negative thing. That's kind of a positive thing, because we can look at what didn't work and what worked in that job. That gives us more of a focus to go down that we're going to look at what worked with it. So, we’ll move that on to the next job. Keith Hosey 32:50 To me that makes so much sense, as someone who's worked in supportive employment for so many years. Sure, it stinks to lose a job if you're fired or maybe even if you quit because you feel like it didn't fit right for you. But, looking on the bright side, “What did I learn from this? What can I bring into my next job? Maybe I know for sure I don't want to work in the food industry anymore. Maybe I want to try an office job now and see if that works for me.” So, this idea that we're constantly learning – and I am a lifelong learner – I love that. It just makes so much sense to me that would be an aspect. That’s a great lesson for all of us. We can all take that away. Teresa Brandenburg 33:41 Right. And I think we all do. None of us have stayed in the same job that we started out in. We've progressed over the years and people with disabilities need to be able to progress, too. They should be able to progress just like us and that's one thing that this program does. You might start out in a certain job. But as you grow, that employment specialist can help you change careers if you decide to. You may work in one thing and think, “Oh, no, I don't really like this, but I really have an interest in this.” They can help you explore that and move on to a different career or move on up in the career that you've chosen. Keith Hosey 34:16 I think one of my favorite things about IPS supported employment is something that I learned early on in my career in disability rights [and that] is that oftentimes people with disabilities are handled with what some say, “kid gloves.” I’ve heard people say we want to make sure our participants are safe and things like that. But to me having the right to fail – those aren't my words, those come out of the independent living movement – the right to fail is a right as well. To get out there and to get into a real job and to try it out and to learn a lesson, even if you fail on that job, as a person with a disability, you have a right to fail as well, and learn and move on and get a new career. Teresa Brandenburg 35:11 Right. Just like anybody else. Nobody's gonna always be successful. There always can be failures and we learn from those failures. Then, we can pick ourselves up, we learn from those and move on and do bigger and better things. And people with disabilities can do the same thing. Kimberly Parsley 35:36 Keith, in the interview, Teresa talks about a fidelity scale. Can you tell us a little about what that means? Keith Hosey 35:43 Yes, absolutely. Fidelity in this context has to do with treatment and/or research and all it means is adhering as much as you can to the parameters and the model so that you can get similar outcomes. Just as fidelity means in a marriage means staying true to your partner fidelity in treatment means staying true to that evidence-based model. So, in the context of Teresa's interview, we're talking about an actual scale that measures that so you can look at it and say, “How closely are we practicing this evidence-based practice? What can we improve and do better?” Because the better we do in this prescribed practice, the better our outcomes are. Kimberly Parsley 36:43 I see. I understand. Thanks! That was very helpful for a term that I personally was having a little trouble wrapping my mind around. So, thanks for that. And that’s fidelity that all of these different areas around the state who are practicing this kind of evidence-based approach, it's how faithful they're being to the model. Correct? Keith Hosey That's correct. Yes. Kimberly Parsley Excellent! All right. Thanks, Keith, and thanks for all your great work! And, of course, we can't end a segment without an update. I know you've got some interesting updates coming out on ADAPT. So, give us a little tease about what's coming up for Kentucky with ADAPT. Keith Hosey 37:28 I do! We are moving forward with starting a chapter of ADAPT in Kentucky [Americans Disabled for Accessible Public Transit]. There is going to be an initial training, it’s being planned right now. If people are interested in being trained or being some sort of part of this ADAPT movement, they can email [email protected]. [Again] That's [email protected] and they can get involved in this grassroots movement. Kimberly Parsley 38:08 I love the email chain, it's already going through. I love how it says that it will be training the people who will train others and that it is not required that you get arrested. [laughter] Keith Hosey 38:22 That's right! I think ADAPT sometimes gets a bad rap, because what we see in the media often is that last step in their advocacy efforts [i.e. peaceful resistance]. We don't see the months that they spend talking to elected officials and engaging with elected officials, calling and meeting and all the theatrics that they do. It is the direct actions, the non-violent direct actions as a last resort. But it should be an option out there. Kimberly Parsley 39:06 As a parent, nothing would make me prouder than for my kids to have to come with my husband to bail me out of jail because I got arrested for protesting on behalf of mine or someone else's civil rights. Keith Hosey 39:25 I know that I I'd be lying if I said that I did not have the same thoughts. So many people I've talked to while trying to get this up and alive have the same [belief]. Like, “Man! That's really on my bucket list to be I want to be arrested in an ADAPT direct action.” Sure! But for some of us, job security may depend on that not happening. So, there's certainly a seat at the table for anyone who's interested in advocating for the full and inclusive rights of people with disabilities. Kimberly Parsley 40:09 Absolutely! ADAPT-KY. I'm telling you, that's where all the cool kids are going to be. So, anyone who's disabled or just a disabled ally, an ally to the disability community, sign up and let's get some things going. Keith Hosey 40:25 And me! It's all the cool kids and me. I'll be there. Kimberly Parsley 40:29 Thanks so much, Keith! Thanks for all your great work. We appreciate it. Keith Hosey Thanks, Kimberly. Kimberly Parsley If you like the podcast, remember to follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. If you really liked the podcast, we'd love it if you could leave us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. That helps more people to find us. If you really, really liked the podcast, then please tell someone about it either in person or send them an email or just share the link on social media. Thank you all! Every bit helps and it makes a huge difference for us. If you'd like a transcript, please send us an email to [email protected] and put “transcript” in the subject line. Thanks to Steve Moore for helping us out with transcripts. Thanks to Chris Ankin for our theme music. Demand and Disrupt is a publication of the Advocato Press with generous support from the Center for Accessible Living located in Louisville, Kentucky. And you can find links to buy the book A Celebration of Family: Stories of Parents with Disabilities in our show notes. Thanks everyone!

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