Episode 76: Connecting the Dots

You're listening to Demand and Disrupt, the podcast for information about accessibility, advocacy, and all things disability.

Welcome to Demand and Disrupt, a disability podcast. I'm your host, Kimberly Parsley.

And I'm your co host, Sam Moore. Spring is continuing to spring, and this is our first of two April episodes. So, Kimberly, welcome to April.

Thank you. I'm excited. I'm hoping that we're out of winter. Fingers crossed. Even though in our last episode, I made a bit of a bet that we get snow in April. But I want to be wrong, Sam.

Well, I don't blame you for wanting to be wrong. And I tell you, me and Carissa kind of went back and forth about that and then the cow conversation, because I was optimistic. I said we probably weren't done with the cold, but that we probably. We're probably out of the woods in the snow department. She disagreed with me.

Yep, yep.

So.

But it's a beautiful day here today in Kentucky. So, Sam, tell me who you're talking to, because you did our interview this week.

Oh, that's right, I did. And we will be speaking Kimberly Parsley, with Dr. Amanda Lannan of the University of Kentucky. They have UK, that is, they have the state's only visually impaired teacher prep program. And I know how important visually impaired teachers are. I had a great one right here at the Henderson county school system that was a godsend to me all the way through from kindergarten, and we stayed together all the way through 12th grade. So. And I know how in demand these people are because some of them now, in fact, a lot of them are going, you know, covering large territories covering three, four, five counties. So, you know, we. We need these people. And it's great that we have a program right here in the state of Kentucky that. That caters. Not all of you all are in Kentucky, I know. But those of you that are, you know, it's good to. You can be proud of that program. They used to have one at U of L. Dr. Landon will tell us that, but they were forced to discontinue because of, you know, funding reasons. And so. But the same lady that started the program at UK or at UVL later would start this same program at. UK. So they. They're carrying it on there.

And the shorthand for that is tvi. Right. Teacher the Visually impaired. Is that. Is that what that is?

Teacher of the Visually Impaired. That is a good way to abbreviate it. Throughout the chat, I basically called it the VI Teacher Prep program, because that's. I actually saw. I heard a video on that from WLEX in Lexington that our friend Dave Mathis sent to us. Thank you, Dave. And so I watched that and listened to a feature with Dr. Lannan and another teacher in the program, in fact, the director, Donna Lewis on there. And, and so that gave us the, the idea, planted the seed, shall we say. And then I reached out to Dr. Landon and we got this thing scheduled. Of course, she was great, and I know you all will enjoy hearing her.

It is a great interview. And so, Sam, did you ever consider doing any, any kind of work like that?

You know, I, I had that presented to me and I have a lot of respect for the work that those folks do. I can't say that I particularly sense that, that calling myself. I know when I went to grad school for communication, I could picture myself maybe teaching basic public speaking classes and other communication courses at the undergrad level. But, but as far as teaching braille, I guess I just never really was tugged by that calling. I know. You know, braille teachers tend to work with students of wide age ranges from kindergarten all the way through 12th grade. And I just can't. I just can't picture myself working with little kindergarteners and first, second, third graders and.

Oh, I totally can see you relating to five year old Sam.

Oh, can you?

I really do.

Yeah. I mean, it's not just teaching them braille, but it's keeping them on task and keeping them disciplined. I mean, it's just. There's a lot more than just teaching the system.

You know, it's. It's hard too, because a lot of. I hear this a lot, that a lot of the kids of any age learning braille almost kind of don't want to be doing it because it's different, you know? Yeah, it's different from what their peers are doing because a lot of kids who are in rural areas, you know, they're the only blind kid in school.

Yeah, that's not uncommon at all. I was for a while in Henderson county till we had a couple more trickle in when I was, you know, in fourth, fifth grade.

But really.

But no, that's not uncommon at all to be the lone blonde person.

Yeah, I was, I was the only blind kid in my high school. I lost my sight when I was 14. So all through high school, I think I was, I was the, I was the only blind student. I mean, I think there were some kids with some other disabilities, but as far as, like, learning braille and stuff, it was just me. And I, I hate to say I was resistant to it. Because, you know, you're in school because

you're just an actual rebel. Kimberly.

I'm a little. I was a little jerk is what I was saying.

Some things never change.

No, listen to that.

But anyway, now, another option, I guess, would be working at a facility like the McDowell center, where you have to be, I think, at least 16 or so to get in there. But all those people would be at least young adults. But, you know, I definitely can't see myself working with, with little children. Now, shout out to Abby Cochenauer, though. She's one of my former guests on Blabbing in the Bluegrass. And she is a. The Braille. In fact, it's the braille instructor at the McDowell Center. And I met her a while back at a short course at ksb Kentucky School for the Blonde. And. And really thank a lot of Abby and the. And the work that she's doing. So props to her.

And one of the things I learned from listening to the interview you did with Dr. Lannan is that at UK, along with your degree in being a teacher for the visually impaired, there's an orientation and mobility also.

Yes. Available there with it, too. And.

Yeah.

Yeah. And you could even double up and I guess get a certification in both if you so desired. So that's. That's something else to definitely keep in mind when you're pursuing your options.

Do you think people who aren't blind or visually impaired know what O and M is? Do we need to explain that?

Well, I guess it couldn't hurt. Just in case, for those of you that aren't familiar, orientation and mobility is what it is. And so I think most of my peers sort of knew because they hear. They would hear me talk about it a lot because I got on in training all the way through elementary, middle, and high school, even in college. That's how I learned my routes to classes on Western campus.

Same.

Yeah, yeah, same for you. And so basically, orientation mobility, for those of you that are familiar, it's the means by which you learn independent travel with a cane. And that includes, you know, various forms of travel, including street crossings, negotiating sidewalks, and businesses. It, you know, in the latter stages of mobility, you learn, you know, how to go into local stores and businesses if you are by yourselves. And. And you learn how to find the counter or the nearest employee and ask for help if you need it and things like that. And like I said, it comes in handy on college campuses when you're trying to learn your routes to buildings and classes. And it's definitely a crucial skill for Those with vision impairment.

Yeah. I mean, the orientation part is kind of learning your path, learning how you get. Learning how you get to. From point A to point B. Then mobility is learning how to use a cane properly.

Right. And that's. That's one of the first things you learn in the O and M process is how to use the cane properly.

Right. It should be called mobility and orientation, shouldn't it? Because the mobility comes first, like using.

Yeah, I guess it should. It should be M and O, shouldn't it?

It should.

It's an O and M. But anyway, yes, that's. Of course, as you well know, Kimberly, the only bad thing about learning routes on a college campus is that a few weeks after you learn those routes, they could be torn up due to construction.

Often. Often are. Often are.

And so you have to be prepared to, you know, use plan B or have a contact person handy in case you need somebody to help you negotiate an alternate route. So there's, you know, lots of things that you have to keep in mind, but it just gives. Just gives us more story to tell. We both know how frequently construction is done on Western Kentucky University's campus.

All campuses, I assume. But I assume that that is the one you and I are most familiar with.

Yes, that's the one we know.

Good old wku.

The good old heel.

Yes, the heel. Yeah.

Yes, indeed. But anyway, yeah, it's a. It's a great chat, though. I know you'll learn a lot from. From Dr. Landon, and I won't spoil it for you before you hear about. But she's from Florida and did a lot of work in the Orlando area as a special ed teacher before she transferred up here to Kentucky. So you'll enjoy hearing about that transition, too. I know she's got a. She's got a doctorate. I've just got a measly Masters. Kimberly.

Carissa would be jealous, that. And wonder why she moved from Florida to Kentucky, wouldn't she? Because Carissa said she wanted to go somewhere where it was warm.

You always want. Well, you always want what you don't have.

I guess so. Not me. I don't. I. I don't like the. I don't like the heat.

Yeah, it's. It's warm enough in these parts in July.

True that. True that.

Yes, indeed.

Well, what else is happening, Sam?

Oh, gosh, you know, I'm getting a little breather here because basketball is. Is over. Kentucky won one game in the NCAA tournament, and they succumbed to defeat in the second game. But, you know, now it's baseball season. And although I like baseball, Kimberly, it has its place, but it's more relaxing for me than basketball. I don't.

You don't get as anxious.

No, no, I don't get as anxious in baseball because, you know, they play 162 games and that's a long. I don't even. There's no way you can listen to every inning, every game, especially since several games a week are. Are during the day.

Now, who's your. Who's your team? I bet it's St. Louis. I bet you're right where you are in the state. I figured it would be St. Louis.

I am a Cardinals fan and try to make it to a game about once a year or so. It doesn't always work out, but. But yes, I enjoy going to games whenever the opportunity presents itself. Now, I know you're a Cubs fan, Kimberly.

I am. I am. It's been a long time since I've made it to Chicago. May go this year. I don't know. We may go to like Cincinnati or St. Louis.

Those are the two closest for you.

Yeah.

Major League Stadium.

We'll have to do a road trip, Sam. We'll have to do a demand in this road trip to St. Louis.

That's a good idea.

When they play the Cubs and well,

we can do demand and disrupt from a. From a location around about Bush Stadium. And so that way we can, you know, while we're talking, they can. Our listeners can, you know, hear the organ in the background.

There you go. I wonder if. I wonder if the Avocado Press would pay us for that. Pay our travel. I'm thinking not. What about you?

Attention Dave Mathis.

There you go. There you go. Yeah. Now what I'm excited about this. This year is this summer the World cup is happening in North America. So I do love.

It's in Philadelphia, isn't it?

I have no idea where. It's in Canada, Mexico and the United States. I just.

Or maybe Philly's. Just the United States portion of it.

Yeah.

I just know I'm not going to get to go, but I'm very excited.

I love to.

I love to listen to the World Cup. I do. Yeah.

Well, that'll. That'll be a good therapy for you when. When the time comes.

Yep. I never know who I'm. Who I'm supporting. I mean, I support the US Team, but this is not going to happen.

It's.

That's, you know, I got to have a different team because the US Is not going to make it.

Have Like a plan that's like me in the tournament, whenever Kentucky lose, you know, I always got to find somebody else to pull for, so. Well, that, that gives you good therapy, Kimberly, to, to listen to the World cup. And you folks I know will enjoy hearing Dr. Lannan because she's very well spoken. And you know, before we talk to you again here in a couple weeks between now and the next episode, remember as always that you are definitely welcome to contact us with any questions, comments you may have, suggestions, just make sure that, you know, you keep them within reason. Don't be, don't be too hard on us. Although we are pretty thick skinned, aren't we, Kimberly?

You know, I think they should tell us if they really want us to travel to a baseball game. They really think we need to do that, then that's.

Yeah. Question of question of the day. Would you like to hear a demand to disrupt episode coming from a major league stadium?

There you go. Sounds great.

Weigh in on that via [email protected] There it is.

That's how you get in touch with us. Yep. All right, gang, well, enjoy Sam's interview. Sam, great job.

Thank you. Enjoy, folks. Well, we've got a lot of Braille readers out there, more than most folks realize. And if you, you are located in the state of Kentucky, even if you're not, there is a great opportunity at the University of Kentucky for you to learn to teach Braille. So if you've ever sensed that calling or you know somebody who has, you know, that may be a Braille reader now and you might think, man, they'd be good in the role of bringing up the future Braille readers of, of tomorrow. Well, we've got just the, the perfect person on tap to teach us all about her teaching role and the, the teaching program for future visually impaired teachers. This is stationed within the University of Kentucky and it's a, a great opportunity for those interested and who have the tools, so to speak, to teach and the knack for it to sort of learn and grow and master their craft. So here to tell us what she knows about the history of the program, her involvement in it, along with the wide array of classes offered within the VI teacher prep program at Ukraine and the requirements needed to get in and you know, the specific roles that former students have gone on to fulfill within their careers. We have a representative, the department head is currently on leave, so the second in command, shall we say, has kindly agreed to join us today. And let's make welcome via Zoom, Dr. Amanda Lannan.

Thank you thank you. It's great.

It's great to have you on board. Now, your employer is obviously Lexington, but you are zooming in from Florida, where you lived prior to your arrival in Lexington. Now, are you from Florida originally, Dr. Lannan?

I am. I was born and raised in Florida, and then I spent quite a bit of time in Indiana and Indianapolis and came back to Florida and raised my family. And I never thought I would leave until I got a job at the University of Kentucky. And now I'm a wildcat.

It's funny how life works sometimes.

That's right.

We're glad you found your way to the Bluegrass State. So how long have you been with UK now?

I started in the program in 2021, so just after the pandemic.

Okay, so you've been a wildcat for creeping up on five years.

Five years, that's right. Yeah.

Tom flies. I'm telling you, it's crazy. It's great to have you here to tell us all about the. The program. Now, teaching in UK's visually impaired teacher Prep program is something that you are quite uniquely qualified for as someone who is blind yourself, Dr. Lane. And I know you were actually born blind as well, so why don't you first talk about the cause of this blindness at birth, Dr. Landon?

So I was born blind and I have liver congenital amaurosis. So lca. That's a mouthful. It is a mouthful. That's why we go with lca, right?

Yeah. That's why we abbreviate.

That's right. Why I abbreviate a lot of our. Our eye conditions out there. So, yeah, so I was. So I've been blind my whole life. I've been a braille reader since I started kindergarten. And so, yeah, my parents were. Are amazing parents, and they've never held me back from doing anything I've wanted to do. And that's why I decided to become a teacher myself. I really loved my teachers. They gave me an excellent foundation, and I enjoyed school and all the extracurricular activities. And so I decided to become a teacher. And my background, though, is not teaching exclusively visually impaired students. My background is teaching special education, which is what my Master's and my PhD are in. It's in special ed. I also have an elementary certification, so I've been a general ed, first grade, fourth grade, and fifth grade teacher. So most of my students were sighted. I have taught some visually impaired students, but the majority of my time in school was with special ed and general ed. So.

Yeah, that's so cool. We'll Talk more about that here as we go along, but it's great that you've had supportive parents as, as did I all the way through. And of course, nothing we might dive into a bit. The, the Braille code now is, is slightly different than the one you and I learned.

Oh, yes, that. That's a, that's a very hot debate and often comes up in our braille courses.

So.

Yeah, yeah, I can see that. I could especially.

It's a deep topic.

Yeah, we could, we could devote a show or two or three to that, couldn't we, doctor?

For sure, for sure, yes.

But anyway, yeah, we'll. We'll save up most of that for a later date. But anyhow, did you, did you go to school for the blind there in Florida, Amanda?

I started at the Indiana School for the Blind. It's. It's now Indiana School for the Visually Impaired. Blind and Visually Impaired, yes. So I went there. Currently it is. They are in process of becoming the Indiana School for the Deaf and Blind. So they're going to be. They're currently, currently under construction.

Oh, they're combining the two.

They are combining, yes. Yes. So then my family moved back to Florida and I attended the school in St. Augustine, the Florida School for the Deaf and blind.

Oh, where Mr. Ray Charles actually attended.

That is correct. Yes. Yep, for sure. You're right. You know your history.

Well, I did, I did read his biography that.

Okay, yeah, yeah, he did.

That was actually written secondhand by another author, but it was.

Right.

I enjoyed. I'm sure when you were down there, you heard plenty about Ray Charles and his history there.

A little bit. A little bit. But, you know, I was, I was young. I didn't really care as much as I probably, you know, would now.

You grew to appreciate it more as you got older.

Absolutely. When you're there and you're a teenager, you're kind of focused on your.

You've got your own agenda.

Exactly.

You probably didn't have a, you know, a real, a real broad knowledge of who Ray Charles was.

Well, yeah, he was a little before my time. I mean, I do, I do enjoy Ray Charles, though, so. But yeah, I was, I, I can play instruments, but I am not a quote, unquote musician. I, I enjoyed sports more than.

You mean, you don't want to sing for us?

Dr. No.

You don't want me saying, we'll be glad to Lex. It.

My daughter's a band director and she would be very disappointed if I tried to do that. So.

No, I don't believe you. But anyway, yeah, it's great that you got such a great education at the Indiana and Florida School for the Blind. And you mentioned enjoying a wide array of extracurriculars. Talk about a few of the extracurriculars you enjoy during your school days.

Well, I still enjoy a lot of extracurriculars.

Some things never change.

Growing up, I competed, I did a lot of things. Swimming, gymnastics, competed in goalball. My primary sport was track and field. I've competed, but I have competed nationally and in swimming, gymnastics and track. I qualified for. Now this is going to age me. Qualified for the 1988 Paralympics in Seoul, Korea, where I competed in the 400 and 200 race.

Oh, how cool.

Yes, I was, I was, I just turned 16 the month before I went, so.

Oh, okay. And so this was the 1988 Paralympics and you competed overseas. So that's a, that's a memory that'll always be with you for sure.

And so I really, you know, I enjoy athletics. I really, yeah, so I, I did that. I did, you know, play in the band. I, and, and still now I love to. It's really fun living in Kentucky. There's a lot of great hiking. I enjoy that.

Absolutely.

I, I love going snow skiing. That's one of the things that I usually am doing this time of year. I'm not there this year, but I did send 10 young adults and some, some athletes, they go out to Winter park skiing every winter. And it's a camp for people who are blind. It's called xmo. It's Extreme Mobility Sports or Extreme mobility camps. So I usually write a grant and take some students out there for that program every year. So I love snow skiing, I love water skiing and getting out on the boat. So yeah, I like to stay active.

So for free, plug for xmo. Now, where is this camp?

It is held every year up in Granby, Colorado, but they ski at the Winter Park Ski Resort and they do so much crazy fun stuff. They go cross country skiing, snowshoeing, inner tubing. They go on snowmobiles up, up to the tops of the mountains. Give the blind athletes a chance to drive the snowmobiles. That's a lot of.

And yeah, that, that does sound like a very unique experience and I'm not surprised that it's in Colorado. But anyhow, that's definitely something that, you know, blind and visually impaired peeps who have an interest in, in skiing should by all means take advantage of. Now. Now, you know, you mentioned your master's and, and, and Ph.D. and, and special ed and, and you undoubtedly, you know, grasp the basics of teaching braille through programs of this nature. But let's start out with your, with your college undergrad. Where, where did you attend undergraduate college, Amanda?

I actually attended all of, I received all of my degrees from the University of Central Florida. Yeah, so I, I'm a knight and I, so I went there for my bachelor's and I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. Kind of like a lot of, a lot of us.

That's the way a lot of freshies start.

That's right, that's right. You know, you pick something that seems that you could get through. So I chose communication and.

Oh, that's what I've got a master's

in there you go. See? So I, I tried a lot of different things. I worked for the, I worked for a bank for a while. I worked for SunTrust. I, I worked for a company where we did 401ks and pen. And those were great learning opportunities. It gave me a chance to really see what students with disabilities are preparing to do. How are they going to learn to advocate? What are the things they need? What are the skill sets? I didn't know that's what I was preparing myself to do. You know, to have that knowledge is to bring that to my students. But that is what that experience really gave me. So it was worthwhile.

So this banking experience, was. It was this while you were still a student?

Oh, yes. Well, after I graduated, I became, I worked at SunTrust. I was a, a wire transfer clerk. So I got to see people's millions and millions flying around. That was, you know.

Oh, gosh, that's awesome. So this, so that was, that was after your undergrad. So there was a, there was a little gap there between your undergrad and graduate.

Yeah, it's just figuring out what you want to do in life. You know, you don't, you don't have to always know the exact plan. You just have to keep going and you'll eventually land where you're meant to be.

And a lot of times, Dr. Lanny, you know, we think we know the exact plan way better than we do. So.

Yes, yes.

You just sort of have to buckle up and enjoy the ride, shall we say?

That's right.

But anyhow, so graduate work was in special ed, but did you, did you attend a special VI teacher prep program of any kind like the one you're teaching in now?

No. Isn't that crazy?

It's kind of ironic.

It is. It's crazy. My Bachelor's or my master's is in special education. I, you know, I don't know. A lot of blind people seem to be quite stubbornly independent, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But we, we don't like easy because we always are not necessarily proving to others, but we are always proving to ourselves that we've got this. And so I thought if I taught people who are blind, I'm taking the easy road. So I didn't want to do that. I also feel like in the field of special ed, in the field of education, there's not a, you know, a quote. This is a blind person, this is a person with autism. We all kind of have a range of disabilities and needs. And I felt like it was really to my benefit. I knew a lot about the vision world. I knew a lot about braille. I knew, you know, quite a bit of adaptive skills, orientation and mobility, you know, things that most people don't bring to the, to the teaching field unless they've been through a program. And so I decided to focus on special ed because then that gave me a much broader, deeper knowledge base to work from to serve my students.

Yeah, and you mentioned that you taught special ed in Florida for a while there as well. Now, did some of this happen sort of simultaneously with your grad work?

Actually, I didn't start teaching until, you know, I did my internship at a really amazing school. It is in Orlando. It's in an area where we call College park and it's Princeton Elementary. And I absolutely loved it. It was a science magnet school. But what connected me to the vision world is that in Orange County Public school, if you had a student who needed braille, if you had a student who really needed daily vision services, then they would come to Princeton elementary because we had a braille list on campus. We had paras that were very used to working with students who are blind. And all the teachers, you know, we had students coming through every year. So teachers were very experienced with working with students who are blind. So it was a really great fit for our students, even though they might have to come from a little farther across town, a really great place. So even though I was special ed, I was really lucky because we also had a pretty vibrant vision community within that school. And I taught there for 14 years. I never left that school. And I just changed roles within that school. I was a fourth grade teacher, I was a fifth grade teacher. I was resource special ed. I was self contained, I was a co teacher. So I just moved around and some of my Students, because we had such a large population of blind students. I had a lot of students who were blind, but they had other disabilities, such as learning disabilities and such, in

addition to their blindness.

Right. That I was highly qualified to serve them.

Yeah, it's great that you were so versatile and it's great that those people had such a wide array of specialized teachers to work with them and support them right there at, at Princeton Elementary. But anyway, so you were there for 14 years. I'm guessing you probably had your PhD a little before you left Princeton elementary then.

No, actually, what's crazy is the year I taught first grade, which was in 2016. 17. I. I absolutely love teaching. In fact, that was my favorite year, was the year I taught first grade. It was just such an amazing year. However, I wanted to make a greater impact and I felt like in my classroom I was only reaching 20 to 30 students a year and I wanted to have a broader impact. So an opportunity came about and through the University of Central Florida, it was a grant funded special ed PhD program. And so I applied and got in. And so the program was very strict, three year program where you worked at ucf. So I had to quit my teaching job and I taught at ucf. I supported undergraduate teachers and it was an amazing cohort. I'm still very close friends with the individuals that I went through the program with.

And that's great.

And it was just a fantastic three year program where they taught very intensively how to prepare new special education teachers.

So you, you, I guess, taught special ed courses for students during the day and did class by night. Is that how it worked?

Yeah, it's kind of flexible. It just depended on, you know what. This was such an incredibly unique program. There were things that we would do where we would go into the schools and work with our undergraduate teachers during the day and we would support them, whether it was their internship, their student teaching. We would do all kinds of research. We traveled around the country and presented and really got an opportunity to network. My last year in the program, I was selected as a National Science foundation fellow, which means it was a diversity group where our focus was on making stem, just STEM careers in general, more accessible. And that was kind of my focus anyway, of my research. And my dissertation was on equitable access to mathematics. And so it kind of just really worked out. And so, yeah, I took a lot of classes. It was, you know, met of course, some of my own challenges during that time, whether that be through accessibility and so forth, but persevered and interviewed all over the country got several callbacks to go and visit. But, you know, it's crazy is when I talked to my colleagues, because it was during the pandemic, I interviewed over Zoom, and when I talked with my colleagues at the University of Kentucky, you just. I just got this feeling like this is the place. I had never visited Lexington before. I had never met my colleagues in person, but I accepted the job.

Sometimes you just know, don't you?

It was crazy. I know. It was the craziest thing, though. We literally. I accepted the job, we flew to Lexington, we bought a house, met my colleagues, and that summer I moved.

So that. That summer was a whirlwind, no doubt.

Oh, my gosh. I don't like it. Gives me ptsd, honestly, to think about it. So I can't. Finishing your dissertation and leaving everybody and everything, you know, moving cross country is. That's. That's. That's tough.

That. That 12 months. That 12 months probably felt more like two months as fast as a. Yeah, but how. So you.

Here I am. Yeah.

And here you are. And the rest, as they say, is history. But. But anyhow, so. So 2021 was that whirlwind year that. That you moved to UK and became part of the VI Teacher Prep Program. Now, I know that. I know that this program holds the distinction of being the. The only one in the state of Kentucky of its kind. So tell me, although you've only been a part of it for almost five years now, but tell me what you know about the history of this.

Oh, I know quite a bit about the history.

I'm sure you do.

The short version. So this program. There was a program in Kentucky before. It was at the University of Louisville. And so it's not the first. No, it's not the first. And what's interesting. And that was a, you know, a logical place for that to be, because the Kentucky School for the Blind is in Louisville.

Right.

American Printing House for the Blind is right there. So it was a very logical place. The. The director of our program, her name is Dr. Donna Lee. She started the program with Gerald Abner. Let's see. So when I started in 21, you know, I think the program's probably been around now. We are on Cohort 14 or 15 now. I think we're about to start our 15th cohort that comes in. So before. Before that, you know, there's a couple of years of prep, but when University of Louisville decided, you know, that they were not able to continue the program, Donna started, you know, working on, you know, that we need A program here in Kentucky. As you know, teachers visually impaired are in very high demand as our orientation and mobility instructors.

Absolutely.

Yeah. So we start. They started the VI program and then only about. Well, when I started in 2021, that was the beginning of the orientation and mobility program. So you can get a master's in either VI or O and M and become an O and M certified O and M instructor. So you can do either or. We have many students who end up doing both. So, you know, that's a great, A great opportunity, I think, to really fill two very high needs in our state.

That's great. So you've been around for the duration of UK's O&M program. We started in 21 and you said you're on the 14th or 15th cohort of the VI teacher program, so that obviously started a little bit sooner.

Yes, yes, it did start sooner. And you know, it was initially a certification. So you could get a certification and add that to your teaching certificate. It was not initially a master's program, but it is now a full. A master's program, Master's of Science. And so you, you can get, you know, two specific master's degree, really, in Kentucky. What it does for a lot of teachers who are either general ed or special ed, it helps them to gain their. Their rank one so often it comes with a good pay raise and it's a really fun job. I mean, I'll tell you, there's no other job like a being a vision teacher. There's no other job I can think of that's like it. So.

Yeah, it is. It is very unique, to say the least.

It is so.

And it's great that UK now has a program of that con. Because you've now UVL still has on him, don't they?

No.

Oh, they don't even have that. Okay. So it's great that UK is filling not one, but two voids for sure. Yeah, that. You know, when. When UVL discontinued both those programs that UK was able to carry. Now, Dr. Lay, before we discuss the particulars of the curriculum that enrolled students are required to complete, why don't you give us an overview of the courses that you personally teach within the program.

I've taught pretty much every course. And not that I'm not qualified. I just haven't had the chance to teach it. I've taught pretty much every course except braille 2 and like I said, it's just because I. It hasn't fit my schedule.

Yeah, it's just a time constraint thing, so.

Yeah, so But I've taught all the courses. There are 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 courses total that students need to take. It goes over a two year period. The courses are Braille one and Braille two. Then there's an Intro to Visual Impairments, There are courses in assistive technology, expanded core curriculum. You have a methods course. That's a lot of pedagogy about teaching, especially within core subject areas. And then we also have a course specifically focused on multiple disabilities. And then the other courses that you would take are anatomy and Physiology of the Eye assessment, which is extremely unique and important course. And then finally you have your student teaching culmination at the end.

Oh, where you actually get real life experience.

Believe it or not, though, most of our teachers teach under what we would consider, it's not called this, but what we would consider kind of an emergency certification. It's a provisional, temporary certification that they can renew every year for three years while they're in the program. So some of our students are actually learning to fly the plane while they're flying the plane.

Yeah. I have heard a lot about teachers in our area that have, you know, had special ed backgrounds and they've gone on to do these certifications. I believe it's exactly what you're talking about there. So that they can, you know, teach Braille and, you know, they can, like you said, renew it as they, as they go along. So about, about how many students do you have enrolled in the program now?

Well, the current cohort is 17 students, but. Yeah, but I mean, and that's a pretty large number of students. You know, we used to average, you know, we were smaller, 7 to 8, then we were up to about 10 to 12, and now we're reaching around the 17 mark and we're on track to surpass that. With enrollment happening right now for the August start, we're already up to 10. And this is the slow season, so we're on track to surpass that.

Not bad for a slow season.

No, no, not at all. And that's great. That just, you know, we're getting the word out. And not only though do we teach teachers here in Kentucky, but we teach. We're part of a consortium. And what that means is that students that are in the consortium can choose to take courses in from different universities. So I think they can choose Western Michigan, they can choose. UMass has a program, Arizona has a program. So whatever fits. People that are in the consortium, whatever fits it within, you know, their timeframe, they can take courses. And we have had a lot of Students from Michigan. The word has gotten out, I guess, that UK is the place. And I have had several Michigan students repeat coming to UK and taking courses. So I've had them over and over. And that's been really great to learn what's happening in other states, learn what's good, what we do want to do, what we don't want to do. I have a student who's in Minnesota right now and she takes courses. I have a student in Louisiana. I've had them from Pennsylvania and Illinois. So it's really not just Kentucky teachers that we're, we're reaching, we're reaching out to our surrounding states as well.

See, so, so it's wonderful that you've got this consortium which is a partnership, basically. So you, you know, you can sort of collaborate with others and other programs and, you know, you feed off them as far as ideas and they can feed off you. And it's, you know, it really, it's, it's a win, win. And plus, like you said, students can take classes also from other universities, I guess, online.

Not our students, though. Our students all, all take courses just with us. But some students that are in the consortium do.

Oh, okay. So those in the consortium from other universities.

Yes. So they can join us if they want. But our students take all of their program specifically through us. So I have some students that are in the complete UK program that travel from Minnesota when we have in person sessions, they travel from Louisiana. They. Because they are enrolled as a UK student.

Okay. From these different places. I see.

So, you know, you've got, then you've got your consortium students on top of those.

See. So it's a wide array of students that you're serving, to say the least. Now, are there any in the program who are blind or visually impaired themselves at the moment?

Oh, yeah, yeah. We've had several going through the program who are blind or visually impaired. We've got one low vision student graduating this May, and we have a student who is deafblind graduating this May.

Oh, cool. So Helen Keller would certainly be proud of that individual for sure. So it's great that you got such a wide array of students. So I'm guessing with, you know, 17 total enrolled in this particular cohort, I'm guessing, you know, the class sizes on average are, are pretty small. Like, what would you say, 5 to 10?

Oh, good.

No, they go through the program together.

So also they're all taking the exact same schedule.

That's when they start in the fall. Now, sometimes due to either a family emergency or Other unforeseen circumstances, you know, they may need to take a class out of sequence for whatever reason, and that could push them, you know, to be with a different cohort part of the time. Also, we have a couple classes, we have two classes that the O and Ms. Overlap with the vision students. So for example, last semester when I taught anatomy and physiology of the eye, I had about 24 students in that class. So they could get pretty big, believe it or not.

No doubt.

Yeah, I wouldn't think so.

Bigger than your. Well, it varies depending on the program, but bigger than your average classes in a lot of those specialty grad schools.

I mean, those are bigger. Those are bigger than a lot of, you know, other, Other programs.

Yeah. And another thing that makes it so unique is that everybody's on the exact same schedule taking the exact same classes, which makes, you know, makes for great study group opportunities.

Oh, yes. And they really get to know each other. They are a great collaborative group, especially by the end of the, of the two years. What's nice is because some districts really have only one TVI in the, in, in their area. And so there's. Yeah, there's not a lot of opportunities. There are. We have some amazing outreach folks from Kentucky School for the Blind that work with each district and they bring them together and, and they do have, you know, collaborative meetings. You know, in their, in their district areas. They might bring several districts together and they're able to collaborate and work together and support one another. But what's amazing is that they still reach out to one another. They'll text, they still call, they, you know, see each other at conferences. And so they really build this really large network over time of all these TVIs that we've had out in the field. And, you know, they all get to know each other and they've all, you know, connected. So I feel like even though they are. Might be the only one in their district, they've got tremendous resources.

Oh yeah. And these are lifelong friends that they're making en route to their degree too.

Yes, yes. And not many programs offer, you know, a friend connection as well.

No. So it's a, you know, you're almost getting two for the price of one.

There you are. Yep. Or 17 for the price of one.

Or. Yeah, this guy's 17 with 17 students enrolled. And they're getting a well rounded education, like you said, from anatomy of the eye to different types of disabilities. And. Yeah, you know, the, the, the braille system and. Oh yeah, all the different aspects and the, you know, the differences in the current one and the former one.

And, and you know, another thing that I didn't mention that makes UK extremely unique and extreme and very, very special is that we also have the deafblind certificate. So the Kentucky deafblind Project is out of the University of Kentucky. And so students can also get a certificate in deafblindness. And we work very collaboratively with them as well. So for example, our students who are taking multiple disabilities right now, when they come together in March. So the way that it works is that you do take some courses in person. So this semester students are taking methods and multiple disabilities. Those are their two courses. And we come together at the University of Kentucky for two in person weekends. So they'll come on a Friday and they stay and go home on a Sunday. And we do all the kinds of things hands on that are much more difficult to do over zoom. And that gives them an opportunity to get to know each other. So this time when they come together in March, we will, the deafblind Project will join us and they will do some haptics training with our students because haptics just aren't useful for individuals who are deafblind, but they are very useful for people who are blind or have low vision. It is a great communication tool and one that is very much underused. And so we give them that opportunity to understand how that's just another form of communication. So we, we try to capitalize on all the partners who we work with to provide our students with as many tools and resources as they, they could possibly have when they get out in the field. Sure.

Yeah. And I'm guessing while those, you know, those people are there as part of that deaf blind certification on the weekends, I'm guessing they, they stay in motels.

Well, the students who are coming for like our vision teachers that are coming for the, for the training for the classes in the summer, they get to stay at UK in our very nice posh dorms. But yeah, on the weekends they do need to pay for their, for their hotels.

I see. So if they're there in the summer, they can, you know, stay and don't. That makes sense because, you know, the dorms are considerably less crowded over the summer, so.

Oh yeah. And we, we, you know, we're struggling for hous already, so yeah, there's, there's no option for that during this.

Yeah. And it's great that they offer a deafblind certification there at UK too, because the Kentucky School for the Deaf is just down the road there in Danville.

Yep. That's correct. So we have some of our teachers who have gone through the Vision program who are teachers of the visually impaired at the Kentucky School for the Deaf. Because there are quite a number of individuals who are deafblind, not just in Kentucky, but they're very under. Undercounted. Under.

Yeah.

They tend to fall.

They tend to sneak below the radar, shall we say?

Well, yeah, for sure. So we do have teachers at the deaf school as well.

Yeah. So you know, those that, that group is, you know, not.

They're very talented.

That is for sure, very talented. And like I said, there, there are way more of them than we realize. So it's. So it's great that they have that opportunity in Danville as well as countless other places. Now I know, Dr. Lanen, that it's always gratifying to hear about former students excelling in their respective careers. So why don't you sort of give us examples of jobs that your students have obtained in the realm of teaching along with, you know, common service recipients of theirs and their places of employment.

Oh, wow. Okay. So. Well, we have. But beyond having incredible teachers around the state, I am just. When I go and observe lessons, I am always so proud and amazed to see the creativity and just the passion that they bring to their students every day. And I learned so much from them when, when they're out in the. In the classrooms, I just gain so much really unique knowledge. But we have teachers that are teachers of the deaf and they now work as TVIs. We have individuals who. I'm going to give you one incredible individual. She went through our TVI program. She also has her deafblind certificate. She is also an orientation and mobility specialist. She is also has her principalship and she is a. Has been a special ed teacher and now she is one of our instructors in the VI program. So she is literally taught in Kentucky schools and gone through all of our programs and is now one of our instructors. And we're very blessed to have Misty. Misty Epperson as one of our. One of our faculty members.

Shout out to Misty. She is well versed, isn't she?

Yes. Yes. We are so lucky to have her. She is really unique and so it's so fun to teach with her because we get to together, we come up with these really crazy and wild ideas and. And she just really has her finger on the pulse of what's happening in education because she's been in the Kentucky schools. I bring a lot of knowledge, but I don't bring the Kentucky school knowledge and that's amazing.

It's great to have her as a co worker, isn't it?

Yeah. The fact that she's gone through all these programs, she really brings a unique perspective that you can't get. I think what's great about our faculty in general is that we all bring something really unique that is really needed. So we have Misty, and she's got the O and M background and special ed background and the deafblind certificate and all of those things are tremendous. We have Justin Kaiser. He runs the orientation and mobility program. He's taught at other universities. He's from Pennsylvania. He's extremely active. He's with my athletes now in, in Colorado skiing. And we love to do all kinds of crazy things. Trying to get a climbing club together right now and some hiking. So he's fun to work with because he's always up for an adventure.

Sure.

Then we have Donnelly and she started the program, so of course she brings that intensive background. She graduated from UofL with her doctorate, so she brings that. And then I bring the, the lived experience and a lot of extra assistive technology I would say is definitely one of my expertise because, you know, I'm a user every day of the technology.

See. So all of you, everybody in the department that you all bring your own sort of creative pieces to the puzzle that, that make up the department.

It makes it very well rounded and really gives students a strong foundation to build their career.

Yeah, absolutely. Like. Like you said, the students in your program have gone on to perform important roles in other school systems and places in Kentucky and far beyond. So that's definitely something to be proud of. Now, entry into graduate level programs such as this is often quite competitive, as you know, Dr. Lynn and so forth. But for those in our audience who may perhaps be sensing this call and why don't you. Why don't you enlighten us on the requirements of admission along with maybe the application process?

Yeah, I'd love to do that. So you can submit a. There's lots. First of all, I want to say that this is a program that we work really hard to ensure that our teachers, you know, a calling to be a teacher is. Is not highly paid. I. I feel like you get a lot of rewards. Unfortunately, pay is not usually the biggest reward that you get.

You've got to be passionate about it.

You do need to bring the passion. But what's amazing is that we have really collaborated. We have a lot of support and so we are able to offer quite a bit of funding to our students. So don't let that be a deterrent if it's something that you're interested in, we would love to talk to you and see if it's a good fit for you.

There are scholarship opportunities available.

Oh yeah, lots of funding. Lots of funding. And so we. If you go to the graduate, if you go to the University of Kentucky and go to the graduate programs, there are. You'll see a few. But we are the visually impaired master's program. You would want to check the one that is in person, meaning on campus. Even though most of our courses are over zoom because we have in person sessions, it is considered on campus and a lot of people don't realize that. So if you are interested, you would choose the visual impairment master's program on campus. You fill out an application, submit your resume, some letters of recommendation, a personal statement, and if you're teaching, then we want to see just some examples of your great teaching over the past few years. That could be an observation that's been done. That could be an award that you've won.

Sure.

Nothing. You don't have to go crazy. You know, we're just looking, looking for people who are passionate, just want to

learn a little bit about you.

Yeah, yeah. And. And then submit that and then we will reach out and schedule a time for us to meet and talk through it. You can always email [email protected] l a n n a n ky edu I'm also happy to look at your transcripts, give you an idea of, you know, how many prerequisites you may or may not need. You are able to transfer in credits so, you know, don't feel like you're starting all over again. But like I said, there's a lot of funding and we have so much fun. I can't even begin to tell you some of the crazy things we do because I'm not going to give away the secrets.

But yeah, some things you just got to find out for yourself.

You gotta find out. But let's just say that there is, there is some crazy cooking involved and during anatomy there's some, a little bit of, oh, I don't know, mischievous fun in anatomy because I wear prosthetics. So we'll leave it there.

Yeah, so that, that just leaves, that leaves the door open for imagination and, and, you know, a fun experience once you get there.

So, so yeah, we're going to be

up to, you know, you learn a lot and you have a whole heck of a lot of fun learning. And so it's, you know, another two for the price of one there.

Well, and Sam, we have so much fun, too. You know, recently when my Michigan students came down, we had all that snow and ice.

Oh, yes. Just a few weeks, as we're recording this. Just a few weeks ago.

Yes, yes, yes. And so I said, oh, you should bring your sleds. We should go sledding, because, you know, there's a big place at UK where all the students love to go at the bowl by the library. So they brought their sleds down and we spent the night after class. We all went over there and we sledded for a while. And my guide dog had a great time sledding himself up and down that hill.

Oh, that's awesome. And they felt right at home being from Michigan, I'm sure.

Yeah, yeah. Yep. So we do all kinds of fun stuff.

Now, do you generally prefer that they have some sort of education background or certification prior to entering the program?

It's not required. No. We have people who have come from having a. All kinds of backgrounds. Communication, believe it or not.

Oh, you're some mild stomping and Grant.

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, they can. They can come from any field. As long as you have a bachelor's degree, then, you know, you can. You can certainly apply for the program.

Yeah, yeah. And find out more about it through Amanda and, you know, get to get a feel for what it's like. Well, that. That definitely opens up the door for a lot of people to consider it. Which leads us to our last. Last item on the agenda here, Dr. Lane. And for those who have entertained the thought of maybe teaching braille and feel that they may likely have a. A knack for it, why don't you conclude. And we've. We've sort of alluded to this off and on throughout our whole conversation. I know, but why don't you end by sort of explaining why a career of this nature is most certainly worthy of their consideration?

Well, I will say that individuals who are blind or visually impaired are often very underestimated. And in this particular role, you have the opportunity to really make a difference for someone who has a lot of potential. But it takes a lot of specialized training to understand what information needs to be taught and how that information needs to be communicated. And so learning braille is one of the very many things that you would learn, but all kinds of other techniques and methods and pedagogy. But it's all very fun. And it is one of the jobs that you can work with students from pre K up through graduation. This is a job where you don't just stay at one school. You travel from school to school and you interact with. If you're a people person, this is a fantastic job. If you are creative and innovative thinker and can like to problem solve and find solutions to unique, unique challenges, it's great. And I will say, without teachers of the visually impaired, I would not be where I am today. My parents. Yeah, my parents and my teachers are honestly why I'm able to sit here and talk to you about this program and why I have a PhD, probably why you have a master's. Sam, it's the people behind us that have really cheered us on, supported us, and had those high expectations when maybe others didn't. And they were able to step in and advocate in a way that, you know, our students are still learning to do.

Right. It sort of reminds us of what we're capable of when we tend to

doubt ourselves and the others and, you know, and the other teachers or people who may not think we can and they know better. They know that we can do it right.

Yeah. And like you said, there's a great demand for these people. I was fortunate to have a braille teacher that stayed within the district, but now I'm hearing more and more about, you know, braille teachers that cover massive territories. Four, five, six counties and.

Yeah.

Yes.

Because we need you so badly. And honestly, we want you to stay here in Kentucky because, you know, Kentucky is a fantastic place to live. It is gorgeous. You know, living in Kentucky is a beautiful thing, but you could literally live anywhere with a teaching degree in teaching the visually impaired because it is in high need everywhere across the country.

Yeah. In all 50 states and beyond.

Anywhere you want to go, you want to go to Alaska, you can get a teaching job. You want to go to Hawaii, I'm very confident you could get a teaching job. So you're not limited.

And more power to you. If you want to go to Alaska, I don't think Dr. Landon and I will be joining you there, but Kentucky's

as far north as I'm headed, so.

I hear you. Yeah, but. But it's great. Yeah. Even even only having been here for five years, you know what a great place it is.

I do. Yes, I do. And I will say, if you have never visited the American Printing House for the Blind, they're opening up their new DOT experience. It's going to open this soft opening this summer, but it is going to be an accessible museum. And if you really want to learn more about the history of vision impairments and you want to learn more about, you know, the different types of equipment and all the amazing things that people who are blind have done over the years. That is a place that you will feel very enriched and it would be exciting for families, any individual, to go and visit.

Yeah, that's a, that's a real fun way to take a deep dive, isn't it? For sure. Yes, indeed.

You will be. You will be impressed if you go.

So make sure that you look into not only that APH accessible museum, but also UK's VI teacher prep program. And we'll throw your email address in the show notes there too, Amanda, which is, like you said, Amanda Lannan KY edu quite easy to remember. Amanda. L A N N A N so pretty easy to spell too. And we'll, we'll link them to the, the graduate page on UK's website as well. And from there they can find your program and learn more about it and even touch base with you if needs. Because you're essentially the. As we're recording this, you are essentially the department head, aren't you? Since the department heads on leave.

Yes, she is right now. Yeah. I'm. I'm learning more than I ever thought I would learn. And, you know, I think that just makes us, again, even stronger.

It does. And more of our most.

We never stop learning, do we?

No. Never, ever. Try as we may to stop, we just can't. But Anyway, thank you, Dr. Lannan, for joining us. I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I hope you have.

Oh, I have. Thank you so much, Sam. It was great to meet you. And Go Cats.

Demand and Disrupt is a production of the Advocado Press with generous support from the center for Accessible Living, based in Louisville, Kentucky. Our executive producers are me, Kimberly Parsley and Dave Mathis. Our sound engineer is Michael Parsley. Thanks to Chris Ankin for the use of his song Change. Don't forget to follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. And please consider leaving a review. You can find links to our email and social media in the show notes. Please reach out and let's keep the conversation going. Thanks, everyone.

There's a difference We've had our curtain calling this time the writing's on the wall this war of words we can't defend. Two damaged hearts refuse to mend. Situations pointless with each and every day it's not okay we need a place. Can you try to make things better? Repair and rearrange things but each and every letter spelled out the fast open Turn up our minds and hearts to change. Disregard for good to set us free

Free

there's just no way of knowing if love lives anymore Turn out the light and close the door. We try to make things better Repair and rearrange things but each and every letter spelled out the need for us to open up our minds and meets the change.