Kimberly talks with Mary-Jo Lord, Coordinating Editor of Magnets and Ladders, a publication for people with disabilities to showcase various kinds of writing. The submission deadline for the fall/winter edition of Magnets and Ladders is August 15. To read the latest issue, visit

Magnetsandladders.org

Behindoureyes.org

Video honoring the ADA's 35th anniversary

Thanks to Chris Ankin for use of his song, “Change.”

The book "A Celebration of Family: Stories of Parents with Disabilities." is available from Amazon here.

Be sure to follow the Advocado Press Facebook page

Visit Appalachian Assistive Technology Loan Fund for assistance.

Visit Moving Forward, the Advocado Press blog.

Send comments and questions to [email protected]

Demand and Disrupt is sponsored by the Advocado Press and the Center For Accessible Living.

You can find the transcript in the show notes below when they become available.

Transcript

You're listening to Demand and Disrupt, the podcast for information about accessibility, advocacy, and all things disability.

Welcome to Demand and Disrupt, a disability podcast.

I'm your host, Kimberly Parsley.

And I'm your co-host, Sam Moore.

Kimberly, million dollar question.

Are you staying cool?

No, as long as I stay inside and still, you know how that goes.

That's the best way to stay cool, although, you know, air conditioners are getting quite the workout across the state and beyond.

Really are.

It is miserable.

Y'all stay safe out there.

Stay hydrated.

Stay hydrated.

If you have medical equipment.

I know a lot of places here where I live have cooling centers open.

So you might want to look into if you have medical equipment that you, you need, be aware of where those cooling centers are in case you lose power.

And if you want to share the water and you're in the Bowling Green area, you know, Kimberly's daughter, Sarah is going to have outdoor band camp next week.

And they're going to need plenty of water.

Yes.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Bandcamp school, school starts, uh, less than three weeks.

Yeah.

I get two weeks from, uh, today in Henderson and in Bowling Green, Bowling Green, I guess is probably about the same.

Yeah.

Uh, the three, I think it starts on the 13th.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, okay.

So yours is the week after us then.

Yeah.

So, um, it's creeping up on everybody.

It really is busy, busy time, busy time today.

Speaking of busy, my interview guest is Mary Jo Lord.

She is the coordinating editor of Magnets and Ladders magazine, which is a, uh, online publication for people with disabilities, um, it's about people with disabilities, but, or, and, or by people with disabilities.

So for both about, and by yes.

Yeah.

So if you've ever thought about, uh, publishing or writing or just how that whole thing gets done, give it a listen, my interview later on.

So Sam, have you ever thought about pinning your biography or writing or any of that kind of thing?

I've been told I should write a book, but I'm like, I feel like I still got some more chapters I better add to it before I do, but, um, you know, maybe if I feel real inspired, I, you know, I did write the, I've done writing in its most basic form.

Uh, I've written, um, I wrote the theme song to my other podcast, Blavin' in the Bluegrass, which by the way, I need to write one for.

You've got a great, we've got a great theme song for the man, but if we ever need another one, I'm going to challenge myself and come up with some more lyrics.

And the theme song, you, you wrote the theme song.

It's very poetic.

I mean, it's just a great theme song for Blavin' in the Bluegrass that you did.

Oh, I'm glad to get you.

As long as Kimberly approves, I think it's great.

And then you performed it also.

You sang it.

Yeah.

With my friend, E.J.

Simmons did the background instrumentals and stuff, but wow.

So very, lots of creative pursuits.

When are you going to sing for us, Kimberly?

Um, let's see about half past, never.

I know better.

So, uh, speaking of creative pursuits, how is the play going?

Yes, I am involved in a play for those of you that maybe missed the last episode.

I am, uh, uh, acting in a play that one of our local playwrights, uh, just got through writing not long ago.

And we started rehearsal about a month back.

Uh, I am, uh, I am running a radio station in this play, Kimberly.

And it is called, like, let me, let me give me a minute.

They don't have a call letters or anything like that.

But yeah, but the play is taffy shenanigans.

You got it.

There you go.

There I go.

I got it.

Pulled it out of your ear in there.

I knew it had shenanigans in it, but I was, I was like tabby tacky.

No, that's not right.

And you finally figured, oh, there's two F's in there.

Yeah.

I got there in the end.

Taffy, by the way, is a real life place or, well, it used to be that it used to be a real life place in Ohio County.

How can a place be used to be?

How can it used to be?

Does it not?

I think it's considered, I think Bob Park, the guy that wrote this play.

I think he told me that's like considered part of Beaverdam now.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

So it like swallowed it up or is Taffy just part of Beaverdam?

Yeah, I guess Taffy used to be, you know, sort of like a neighborhood and then Beaverdam just sort of claimed it.

And I guess it just sort of, you know, became part of it.

But, but that all happened after Bob left though, you know, Bob's been here in Henderson since the late fifties.

So, you know, I don't, I don't think, I don't think he fully has grasped how that happened, but, but he has lots of fond memories of Taffy and the people there, and that's who the characters in the play are, are sort of based on, people he grew up around.

Right, right.

Now, what did, was your character, did he write that specifically for you?

Yeah, cause we never, well, he had me being a news reporter in a play, I guess a few years back, but, but yeah, I guess since he knows I, you know, was a broadcasting major and, and I do podcasts and things, I guess he thought, you know, he thought that'd be right up my alley and it is, but you know, it's something that, that I really enjoy.

But, but yeah, up until now he's, and, you know, like I said, he had me reporting news once, but other than that, he's not had any radio people in his place.

Oh, so you memorizing your lines yet?

Yeah, I'm working on committing them to, to memory.

I'm probably about, oh, 20% there.

Well, hey, I mean, that's not bad.

That's early days.

Yeah, we still got about a month or so before we put the thing on stage.

So there's time.

Right, right.

Well, so yeah, so creative pursuits, very, very important.

Absolutely.

We should all challenge ourselves in some form or fashion.

Yeah.

Yeah, I do some, I do some writing, haven't submitted to magnets and ladders, but I, you know, I may try, I may give it a try.

Hey, I'm not putting it past you, especially since you're, you know, you're, you're diving into poetry somewhat these days.

I am, I am doing poetry now instead of novels and stuff.

I do some more shorter form stuff like essays and poetry.

So I'm enjoying it.

And shortly after you master poetry, you're going to dive into singing.

Um, not probably, probably Sam's orders.

Hey, you know what?

I have been trying, I have been learning to play the harmonica.

Harmonica.

Okay.

See, that's a start.

That's, that's a musical endeavor.

Uh, well, I mean, I used to be musical.

I played in the band and stuff.

Oh yes.

Yeah.

You used to play yourself and of course your daughter does now.

And my daughter does.

My son's in the orchestra.

He plays cello.

So yeah.

And, uh, harmonica, of course my son is like, he just, he got, I, I got them harmonicas for Christmas.

And so he sits down and I was like, Hey, you know, there's a cool harmonica piece at the beginning of, uh, piano man by Billy Joel and the child looks at it and in like, um, a matter of minutes, like four or five minutes.

Yeah.

He plays it.

That is, that is off.

But yeah, you folks need a harmonica and a perfect example of a, of a harmonica, uh, stand out.

I wouldn't say solo, but stand out.

Just listen to, uh, piano man by Billy Joel, especially at the beginning.

The beginning.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a great example.

You know, there's lots of Bob Dylan.

I believe Bruce Springsteen even does some harmonica and his stuff.

There's a Tom Petty.

So, you know, lots of harmonica and the heartbreakers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

For sure.

So absolutely.

But, uh, yeah.

So that, what is, what does Michael play or has he ever played any kind of instrument that you know of my poor husband?

He's a hopeless.

He's got to hear that.

I guarantee I know he edits this.

So he's going to, I mean, I love him dearly.

I bought him a guitar for his birthday so he could try to learn.

And it's, it's the guitar is doing very well over here in the corner of the dining room.

Just hanging out, watching collecting dust, collecting dust.

Yeah.

Um, Oh God, you let me know the, you let me know the outcome when he hears that.

When he hears this, what he says.

Yeah.

But you know what?

He's willing to try.

He's willing to try.

So there's that.

Yeah.

He's got an open mind.

He's going to, you know, he's going to get there at some point.

Well, by his birthday, he's supposed to play, Sayer challenged him to play a song by Weezer.

So.

Oh, a rock band.

Yeah.

Yep.

So it's a song called Buddy Holly by Weezer and she loves it.

And she has challenged him to play it.

And I shiver to think what will happen if he doesn't.

So.

Now remind me, when is his birthday?

It's in December.

Oh, so he's got like four months.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's got a while.

He's going to need it.

He'll probably need every bit of it really will.

He'll be sitting, you know, after Thanksgiving dinner, he'll be practicing.

Yep.

Yep.

He'll need to need to do that.

Well, he's trying to digest his mashed potatoes and gravy and pumpkin pie and all that fun stuff.

Although to be fair.

Okay.

To be fair.

He works.

We have two teenagers that have to be carted around everywhere.

So it's a busy life.

He's got a few things going on.

He does.

It's not like he's got like a gob of free time to.

And then he's got to sleep for a few hours.

Yeah.

Well, you know, I let him sleep every now and then.

Once in a while.

Yeah.

Once in a while.

So it's not like he's slacking off.

He's, it's, it's hard to find the time for hobbies in it.

It's it is.

Yeah.

There's only 24 hours in a day and you got to spend them wisely.

But Hey, the best way to get something done is a deadline, right?

That's yeah.

Yeah.

Self-imposed deadlines.

They're, they're sometimes necessary.

They are absolutely.

So, um, and deadlines and opposite of that is an anniversary.

And we have got one coming up the weekend of this pot that this podcast will come out.

It is the 35th anniversary of the passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act. So that'll be Saturday at Saturday.

Okay.

Great.

So I guess this will probably be up either the day of or day before, but yeah, Saturday the 26th is the official anniversary, George HW Bush, Mr. Read My Lips.

He signed that into law.

Signed that into law in 1990.

And, uh, well, I was only two years old.

Well, I was substantially older than two.

Not substantially, but you were older.

I was older, but it made a huge difference in my life.

I, uh, I think I said on a couple of podcasts ago that I lost my sight just a couple of months before the ADA was passed.

And thank goodness that I've basically my entire disability, my entire life as a disabled person, I have had the protections of the ADA.

Yeah, it's always, you know, it's always been a nice little reminder for everybody that, uh, you know, protection of, uh, of those with disabilities and inclusion of those with disabilities is, uh, is essential.

And, you know, Kimberly, I was telling y'all there, there's a really cool website, uh, that everybody should check out to celebrate this anniversary.

It's ADAanniversary.org and you go on there and I guess it was created specifically for, for, uh, this little celebration and you can find, you know, more information on the act and you can even find this really cool video with testimonials on, uh, on people and how their lives have been touched by it.

One of them, uh, speaking was the, uh, director of research for the American association on health and disability.

And, uh, yeah, it was, uh, it was Dr. Pratt or, um, yeah, yeah, she was a doctor.

I'm pretty sure, but yeah, Dr. Pratt, director of research.

And she said she had a disability when she was about four months old, but, uh, left her paralyzed from the, from the waist down.

And, um, you know, she thought for a while in her childhood that everybody had a disability.

And then she realized that, you know, not everybody did.

And as she got older, she thought, well, if I'm going to be a productive member of society, I guess I'm just going to have to learn to walk.

Well, then she was six years old and she went to the Boston marathon.

She lived close by there.

She's from the Boston area and everybody up there, I guess it goes.

And even if they don't partake, they, you know, go cheer people on, support the event and, uh, there she noticed all these people, not only walking on foot or running on foot, but whizzing by in their wheelchairs, 25, 30 miles an hour.

That let her know that, that let her know that, uh, just cause you have a disability doesn't have to stop you from athletic pursuits or being productive.

And speaking of, uh, wheelchairs and the Boston marathon, of course, uh, I know on a previous show you featured Matt Davis, right?

Lisa interviewed Matt, uh-huh.

Oh yeah.

Lisa interviewed Matt.

Uh, and of course he's a coordinator of student disability services at, um, at Western Kentucky university and he has been in, uh, at least one Boston marathon that I'm not really, uh-huh.

Wow.

Yeah.

And he's done other wheelchair races too.

Oh yeah.

I knew he was big into wheelchair racing for a while.

Uh-huh.

So yeah.

Yeah.

If you, uh, if you have any questions about wheelchair races, I'm sure he'd love to hear from you.

Yeah.

Uh, matt.davis of WKU.edu.

I'm sure he'll appreciate that.

Um, you know, those testimonials and things, those are, those are so important.

Share in our stories.

That's one of the things we want to do here on demand and disrupt is share those stories.

That's why we're here.

We, we want to share the stories so that people don't feel alone.

They can, you know, break down our own barriers, barriers of internalized ableism and work to make change for ourselves as there's power in numbers.

There's power in numbers and we are starting to refer to the people, our listeners as here we go disruptors disruptors.

Yes.

Yes.

It makes sense.

Cause we're in demand and this right.

Right.

I, I came up with that all on my own, if you like it, but if you don't, then Keith Hosey came up with that and blame him.

I only came up with it.

If you approve.

That's all right.

That's all right.

Uh, uh, well, Keith said, you know, identity is important.

So let's, let's try to bring our listeners together under one banner.

And, uh, he suggested disruptors and I thought that sounded perfect.

So that, yeah.

So in heretofore, uh, we shall be referring to our listeners as disruptors.

So we love hearing from our disruptors via email.

Don't we do, we do.

We, uh, love to hear any of your comments and stuff to demand and disrupt at gmail.com.

Yeah.

You can email us with your questions, comments, thoughts, uh, guest ideas.

We do love those.

We love those always for sure.

We do love those and we don't bite.

So don't be afraid.

We do.

No, we, we, we love to hear from our disruptors.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Go ahead and disrupt us with an email, please.

Disrupt us with an email.

We don't mind at all.

All right, gang.

Well, here we go.

Stick around for my interview with Mary Jo Lord.

I am joined today by Mary Jo Lord.

She is the coordinating editor for Magnets and Letters.

And she's going to tell us all about that publication and about herself.

Welcome Mary Jo to demand a disrupt.

Thank you very much for having me.

So tell me about yourself and about the publication.

Well, I live in Rochester, Michigan with my husband.

We're both retired and, um, we're expecting our first granddaughter sometime this month.

Oh, congratulations.

That's exciting.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And, um, I've been blind since birth as the coordinating editor of Magnets and Ladders, I, the first thing that I do is I received the submissions and make sure that they meet the requirements for the submission guidelines, um, right back with the authors, if there's anything that immediately needs to be taken care of.

If there's a question about the submission, whether it's fiction or nonfiction is usually the big question.

If, if a story reads like one or the other, and then, um, I get the pieces put together in files for our committees.

And I'll talk more about that when I talk about Magnets and Ladders in general.

And then when the committee members give me their responses, then it helps me to determine what actually gets put into the magazine.

Once I have all that, I, I'm able to determine what's going to be published.

And then I put the home stories and articles in the magazine in an order and into sections so that the pieces relate to each other and so that they're in sections, so that like pieces are together so that the whole magazine flows.

That sounds like a lot of work.

It is, but I enjoy it.

Wonderful.

Wonderful.

Do you have a background in publishing in any way or, or, um, writing?

I write, I write poetry and some nonfiction.

A long time ago, I wrote fiction before my son was born.

So I write and I've been published, but I don't have any sort of publishing, publishing background.

Uh huh.

Okay.

Except with Magnets and Ladders.

Except with Magnets and Ladders, right?

So, so tell me about the Magnets and Ladders.

It's an online magazine for writers with disabilities.

The first issue was published in spring, summer of 2011.

And at that time, Marilyn Brand-Smith was the coordinating editor and she edited the magazine through 2013 and beginning with 2014, I was the coordinating editor, uh, from that point forward, we publish poetry up to 50 lines, although we prefer shorter, um, but we will publish some longer poems, you know, like I said, up to 50 lines, um, fiction and nonfiction up to 2,500 words.

We will feature a book excerpt if somebody has published a book and their book is available in an accessible format, meaning it's in an ebook or an audio format, then, um, we will often feature a book excerpt.

So tell me about the name of the publication Magnets and Ladders.

What does that mean?

Okay.

When they were looking for a name for Magnets and Ladders, there were all sorts of ideas thrown out.

I'm not sure what all of them were, but Lisa Bush came up with the idea of Magnet, like a magazine on the net.

And then, and then they added the S on the end.

So Magnets and then Ladders is, um, climbing the letter, the ladder of success to publication.

Oh, okay.

Oh, wonderful.

Great.

That is, I never got that before.

Magnet.

That's awesome.

Uh-huh.

So the, the magazine was always online, right?

There's, it was always online and we publish around 60 pieces each edition between 60 and 65, you know, of all sorts of length.

Okay.

And the contributors have all, all varieties of disabilities.

We're seeing a lot more variety and disability recently, which is good.

Um, for a long time, probably 95 or more percent were blind, but we're seeing a diversity in disability within the past couple of years.

We're seeing, um, more physical disabilities, um, the mental health disabilities, um, health related issues.

Okay.

And so just to clarify, you are open to all different kinds of disabilities, right?

Yes.

Oh, and we've had some, and we've had some deaf people that publish their work with us.

So do people need to, but the, the work itself that's submitted doesn't have to necessarily be about disability.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

Um, we publish some pieces that are about disability, but our focus is also on anything that somebody chooses to write.

The idea is that people are people.

They aren't just their disability and people with disabilities still travel.

They're still concerned about world issues.

They're still concerned about family.

They have memories and they've taken vacations.

They've, they enjoy going to restaurants.

They enjoy music and hobbies and all those same things that everybody else does, and they write about those things.

I believe when I was researching, it said you like for someone, if the article itself that they submit isn't about disability, then they just need to disclose what their disability is in the bio.

Is that correct?

Yes, that's correct.

Okay.

Wonderful.

And can you tell me about some of the interesting people or, uh, submissions that you've received over the years?

Uh, yeah.

Um, sort of like I'm, I feel like I'm being asked to pick out my favorite children, but, um, there's been so many, we, we receive a lot of, sometimes nonfiction, but a lot of fiction related to the environment.

Um, some of our writers write some really interesting environmental fiction in particular, science fiction or stories that kind of involve the supernatural, we receive historical fiction, uh, mysteries, we receive poetry about all sorts of subjects.

Sometimes it's disability related.

Sometimes we have someone that writes a lot of pieces about music and about medieval kind of work, um, those sorts of things.

Oh, uh-huh.

That sounds like Celtic, Celtic type homes.

You know, I love the, I love the nature pieces, lots of the poets and things.

I like to read nature and travel because we get a lot of travel.

Yeah.

Well, and it's interesting because I do not like to travel, but I like to read other people's experiences traveling.

And I don't like, I mean, seriously, the porch is as far outside as I want to get, but I love to read other people's experiences, you know, with nature and things, so we have someone that retired and he and his wife do a lot of travel and we get a lot of his travel pieces.

We get a lot of family memoirs.

Um, we're, we have somebody that writes about her own family, um, you know, relatives and her own memories.

And we get some fiction that are really strongly based in dialogue, which is good.

Creativity is just, I'm always amazed by it.

Aren't you just, uh, I'm always, I love to open up a new submission and see what it's about.

Exactly.

So tell me about behind our eyes, what that is and how it's, uh, how it's sort of affiliated with magnets and ladders.

Well, behind our eyes is a nonprofit writers organization for writers with disabilities, and it was founded in 2006.

And in 2007, they published their first anthology and it was called behind our eyes and that was kind of what started the interest in having a magazine.

And then in 2013, they published their second anthology and that was behind our eyes, the second look.

And then in 2003, we had our third anthology and that was behind our eyes.

Three, a literary sunburst.

So we've published three anthologies.

We sponsor magnets and ladders.

In addition to publishing the fiction, nonfiction and poetry, we provide prizes for first and second place and the prize money for that comes out of the behind our eyes budget and the behind our eyes members are on the committees for magnets and ladders in that the funding for the prizes that are given out for fiction, nonfiction and poetry each time comes out of magnets and comes out of the behind our eyes budget, we offer a first and second place prize in all three areas for each issue of my issue.

Right.

So, so there's a first, second, and then there are two honorable mentions that those don't receive any monetary prizes.

Okay.

How much is the monetary prize?

Or does that just depend each month?

No, it's, um, $30 for first place and $20 for second.

Oh, okay.

And in what are the categories again?

Poetry, fiction and nonfiction.

Okay.

And so those funds come out of the behind our eyes budget and we have committees for all three genres and there are five people on each committee and those people are all behind our eyes members.

And they are all there, they do the behind our eyes work on a volunteer basis.

Yes.

And Jay Smith, who's affiliated with behind our eyes, he's the webmaster for behind our eyes.

He's also the webmaster for magnets and ladders.

Oh, okay.

Now, is there a membership cost for behind our eyes?

No, we do ask for donations, but there isn't a dues or anything like that.

Okay.

Wow.

So I will put a link to behind our eyes in the show notes.

Magnets and ladders, it comes out twice a year.

Is that right?

It comes out twice a year.

Uh, the, it comes out usually the end of October and the end of April.

Okay.

So there's a spring summer and a fall winter.

And lots of people who have a disability might know that they have an interesting story to tell, but not, not know how to go about doing that.

Do you have any advice for like aspiring writers?

Well, the first piece of advice would be to just try sitting down and writing, but I would also strongly encourage people to join a writing group.

If they're wanting to seriously sit down and write their story behind our eyes, welcomes people at all writing levels.

We have critique groups, people can post their work on, on the message list and people will give feedback.

We do critique sessions on zoom and in, and on the phone line.

And other writing groups will do the same thing.

You know, that would be the first thing to do.

Find a writing group that works for you.

Because the other part about it is writing.

It sounds like it's easy.

You just sit down and write, but there's a lot more to it.

Writing is enjoyable as it is.

It's also work.

I tell you, I have written some amazing stuff in my head and then sit down to actually produce it.

And my goodness, it was so beautiful in my head.

But then something about committing it to the page or the screen.

It just doesn't work.

Does it?

No, no, it doesn't.

It sounds good in your head.

And then you try to sit down and put it into words.

And what was that that I wanted to say?

It's gone.

Yup.

Exactly.

And also when you work with a writing group, then there's, there's that commitment to having a time schedule.

Other people are counting on you to produce something behind our eyes also has a write-in on Friday afternoons where people just get together on Zoom and you talk for a few minutes and then there's an hour or more of silence.

Everybody mutes themselves and you write.

And then at the end, you come back and you say, you know, did you accomplish anything or not?

What did you get done?

Wow.

That's awesome.

To set setting aside that time for writing is so important, isn't it?

It is.

Yeah.

That, that dedicated time.

Also reading.

I encourage people to read Magnets and Letters and I'll have a link to the most recent episode in the, in the show notes as well, because you know, you can be inspired by what other people have written and that can, that can be quite a motivator.

Right.

You read, you read something and you think, Oh, I had a similar experience to that.

I could write this or this made me think of this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, um, you know, sometimes even just writing a book for your family.

Just writing something for your family is, uh, very, very meaningful.

You know, that's something that people can pass down their generations and get to know you and your experiences.

That can be important too.

Yes.

Because, you know, once, once you're not there to tell the story, then it's lost.

Yeah.

So, so Mary Jo, how important is creativity in your own life?

I know you're very busy with the, the practical side of, of Magnets and Ladders, but tell me about creativity in your own life.

Obviously it's important, or I wouldn't be working on something like Magnets and Ladders.

Um, and voluntarily, right.

And that itself is creative because it's, um, you know, I look at the, the work that I'm going to publish and think, okay, what would fit well together and what would be a good title for this section?

And that's creative in and of itself.

Um, and as much as writing is work, like I said, it's also, there's a sense of satisfaction when I've written something, you know, even if it's a five line poem, if it all comes together the way I like it, there's a real sense of satisfaction and it just feels good to have something accomplished.

Yeah, exactly.

How important do you think it is for people with disabilities to have this kind of space where they recreate work by other people with disabilities?

I think it's important because it gives them the opportunity to see, you know, these people have disabilities and look what they've written and it's out there in the world for people to read.

I think anything that helps us know that we are not alone and that there is community out there is so very valuable.

I agree.

And so how can people read the latest issue of Magnets and Ladders?

They can read it online at www.magnetsandladders.org and Magnets and Ladders is all one word.

If you are a subscriber to, you know, if you're a member of BARD, you can contact your library and ask if you can get a copy of Magnets and Ladders from the Perkins library on cartridge.

They're usually an edition behind, but they do record it, but it's only available on a cartridge that has to be sent to you.

Not, not download, not download.

No, not a download, unfortunately, but they do, they do a nice job of recording it.

It also gets put up on Bookshare.

And so if you're a member of Bookshare, if you prefer that way of reading, if you remember, but it's always online.

So there's three possible ways of reading it.

Wonderful.

Making sure everyone has the, the preferred medium and has an option to read it.

Wonderful.

And when is the submission deadline for the next issue?

Submission deadline for the spring summer.

Oh, excuse me.

For the fall winter edition is August 15th, August 15th.

Okay.

August 15th, right around the corner.

And then the deadline for the spring summer edition is February 15th.

Okay.

Wow.

So people got to be thinking ahead, don't they?

They do.

And the important thing to remember is when you're submitting for, for fall winter, don't please don't send summer pieces.

All right.

Yeah.

And, and the same thing for, for spring summer, um, you know, your, your lovely piece about Christmas and snow, you know, save it for the other edition.

Uh-huh.

So if someone does that, do you hold on to it or you all just, you, you just don't have the capacity to be able to hold on that they have?

Um, sometimes I do.

Sometimes you do, but there's one that I did that with this time that I'm hanging, that I purposely hung onto.

I specifically asked the person to please submit this to magnets and ladders, you know, cause I really liked the piece, not thinking that it would be submitted for spring summer, um, and I hung onto it, but I can't make a promise about that.

No, no.

Because we get so many submissions, but that particular piece was, was really something special and I did hang onto it.

And it's going to be in the fall winter edition.

Okay.

And so if someone does submit, how long, uh, after they submit, do they hear if they've been accepted for publication?

That kind of depends.

Some people find out in, let's say for the fall winter, they'll find out in September if they've won one of the contest positions, they may also find out if other pieces have been, are going to be published because if they've won a contest, I usually try to tell them if any of their other pieces are going to be published, they may also find out before then, because if I'm working on pieces, either for the contest or other pieces, if I start writing you and asking specific questions about your piece or wondering what you would think about moving this line here, or did you mean this, if I'm working on your piece in September, it means it's going in the magazine, not a big mystery there.

Right.

It's not a big mystery.

And the same thing, you know, if I'm working on your piece in March, your piece is going to be in the magazine or, or in March is when they get notified about the contest.

About, right.

About the, so if they're notified in March, that would be for the spring summer issue, right?

The spring summer contest.

And then the rest of people find out in April or October.

Okay.

Okay.

Gotcha.

And if their piece is not going to be published, I also let them know that.

Oh, that's nice.

So a lot of places don't do that.

That's very good.

That's, that's nice.

So where can people who might be interested, where can they find the submission guidelines?

It's always near the beginning of the magazine at the www dot magnets and ladders dot org address.

Okay.

And then it'll just be a link to submission guidelines, correct?

It, you know, there's, should know this off the top of my head, but there at the beginning, it gives all of the staff associated with the magazine.

And then I think it goes right into submission guidelines.

Okay.

Don't quote me, but everything is searchable by heading.

Right.

Okay.

Wonderful.

I will, I will look that up.

I will try to find the guidelines and put them out there in a link in the show notes for people to look at.

I feel certain we have some brilliant listeners who are writers as well.

And they will want to reach out and submit Mary Jo Lord.

It has been wonderful talking with you about writing and creativity and magnets and ladders.

Thank you so much for joining me today.

Okay.

Well, thank you very much.

Demand and disrupt is a production of the Advocato Press with generous support from the center for accessible living based in Louisville, Kentucky.

Our executive producers are me, Kimberly Parsley and Dave Mathis.

Our sound engineer is Michael Parsley.

Thanks to Chris Anken for the use of his song change.

Don't forget to follow or subscribe.

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Please reach out and let's keep the conversation going.

Thanks everyone.

You say you've seen a change in me.

Just for once, I think I would agree.

We both know there's a difference.

We've had our curtain call.

This time the writing's on the wall.

This wall of words we can't defend.

Two damaged hearts refuse to mend.

This situation's pointless with each and every day.

It's not a game we need to play.

We've tried to make things better.

Prepare and rearrange things.

But each and every letter spells out the need for us to open up our minds and hearts to change.

Oh, we're jaded and gray There's just no way of knowing If love lives any more we'll Turn out the light then close the door We tried to make things better Repair and rearrange things But each and every letter Spells out the key for us to Open up our minds and hearts to change Change.

Change.

Change. you you